Joseph JaffeFliping the Funnel How To Use Existing Customers to Gain New Ones - A Conversation with Joseph Jaffe. Welcome to a Big Picture Channel Podcast on TotalPicture Radio with Peter Clayton reporting. When Joseph Jaffe and I realized we were neighbors, we decided to conduct this interview in person. (About 90% of my interviews are phone based, it's always enjoyable to have a chance to meet in person). Joseph suggested Rizzuto's, a new Italian restaurant in Westport, Ct. (Terrific food and service - and a quick walk from the Westport train station).
Joseph's new book, Flip The Funnel; How to Use Existing Customers to Gain New Ones, became the topic of conversation when I met with my business partner, Valerie LaSusa, for lunch last week. She has been doing a great deal of research on traditional marketing funnels: eyeballs>> (awareness > consideration > preference > action> loyalty>) >> buyers and what happens when you turn the funnel upside down. When I pulled Jaffe's book out of my backpack, it was one of those "you must be kidding" moments. Our two hour lunch could have easily gone on for eight hours. Val purchased a copy of Flip the Funnel and helped me prep the interview with Joseph. (Click read more to read her notes).
Joseph Jaffe Background
One of the most sought-after consultants, speakers and thought leaders on new marketing, Joseph Jaffe is Chief Interruptor of Powered, a conversational marketing company, specializing in community, dialogue and partnership.
Prior to merging with powered, Jaffe was president of crayon, where he worked with companies including P&G, The Coca-Cola Company, Dunkin’ Brands, TiVo, Motorola and Fox Interactive Media. Before that, Joseph was Director of Interactive Media at TBWA/Chiat/Day and OMD USA, where he worked on Kmart, ABSOLUT Vodka, Embassy Suites and Samsonite.
Jaffe’s popular blog and audio podcast, "Jaffe Juice”, provides daily and weekly commentary respectively on all things new marketing. You can join the conversation at
His first book, ”Life After The 30-Second Spot: Energize Your Brand With A Bold Mix Of Alternatives To Traditional Advertising” (Wiley/Adweek) was released in June 2005 and focuses on how advertising is evolving in a world ruled by an empowered consumer and no longer governed solely by the 30-second spot. His second book titled, “Join the conversation: How to engage marketing-weary consumers with the power of community, dialogue and partnership” was published by Wiley in October 2007.
Joseph is a Senior Fellow at the Center for the Digital Future at the USC Annenberg School, as well as the Society for New Communications Research. Hailing from South Africa, he lives with his wife, daughter and two sons in Westport, CT.This morning I happened across the above graphic in an older Center Networks post and it triggered a quick thought on a familiar theme.
Valerie LaSusa's interview notes
Book's premise
Spend time on keeping vs. attracting new customers
Customer experience is key to business success
Secret of business is figuring out what people want & then selling it to them
Customer service is marketing, marketing is listening -- engaging and building long-term relationships with customers
Real role of social media -- create influencers and evangelists -- brand advocates/engaged customers are your best form of advertising -- do you really need more advertising, or do you just need a better way of relating to your customers?
Join the conversation -- marketing as a conversation as opposed to talking at people, having people invite you to join in.
Q. Your company, crayons, a strategic consultancy that helps clients leverage new media and social media to effect transformational change -- what do you have clients look at first in order for them to get a handle on where they are? Do you have an "audit process?"
This is old news - old problem
everyone knows there is ROI associated with customer satisfaction and even most companies today know that there is ROI associated with employee satisfaction (for x points up in employee sat, raise customer sat and increase x in revenue)
Q. Assuming some companies are paying attention to customer satisfaction, why are companies getting the data via surveys and exit interviews, competitive profiles, etc. and not doing anything with it?
Lack of investment in research -- are they really getting the data?
Is it lack of actionable data to really fix stuff?
When they get the data, they don't know how to turn it into results?
Q. -- Lack of funding? In the prologue to your book, Ben Popkin said "In the interest of next quarter profits, companies are cutting costs; service is a debit on the balance sheet" -- How do you convince companies, senior management, marketing directors, that they have to change and invest in the customer experience?
Q. If the traditional funnel is "dead" -- if retention is the new acquisition, what are some of the key retention strategies you recommend?
what kinds of retention analysis should companies be doing?
I’m only going to be focused on the 20% of my customers that provide 80% of revenue.
what are the new rules of customer service (customer service 2.0)?
Q. You say that the 3 primary colors or traditional way of marketing (TV, Radio, print) is dead or dying -- isn't it just evolving? While there are 93 other colors in the box of crayons?
- Interactive
- Gaming
- On Demand Consumption
- Consumer Generated Content
- Communal Marketing
- Experiential Marketing
- Mobile
- Search
- Branded Entertainment
isn't picking the other colors/channels dependent on the learning style, psychological profile (e.g., introvert/extrovert), customer niche/demographic profile you are going after?
Q. Let's say someone wants to start a real conversation with their customers?
Is there a phased approach to getting started? A "best-practice model?
Is it totally dependent on the audience/customer you are trying to engage?
What is the ROI model for reducing your spend on awareness/new sales "churn" to allocating more money to retention and still make your share-holders happy and meet your numbers this quarter? Do you have any models for Return on Investment doing what you proscribe. How much time vs. how much money before you see some results?
This approach takes commitment and ongoing investment. How much time/money do you have to invest -- are there certain categories you need to invest more in to take the data that comes in and figure out what things you need to fix first to make your customers happier now?
- Communication
- Collaboration
- Connectivity
- Creativity
- Content
- Commerce
- Community
- Context
- Customization
- Conversation
Q. Your basic message is very common sense -- get customers to buy more often, spend time with you in the process, recommend to their friends by:
treat customers well
remember their names
respect their loyalty
reward and recognize repeat business
harness customers untapped potential as advocates, sales people and affiliates
Q. Change management 101 -- where are you -- aren't customer service areas and marketing departments doing some of this now? How do you help companies truly transform even if they are "broken"?
what if their companies are unhappy?
what if you are behind in terms of innovation?
what if they are complex companies with different customer service, marketing and sales departments?
Q. How do you become the “hub” to get all of the issues addressed? IT, Sales, Marketing - everyone with their own agendas
Q. You say "I understand" -- but when you say sort of "get over it" -- how do you help build the business case for companies to "hardwire customers into the DNA of the organization"?
Churn -- preventing it
COST -- acronym -- pg. 29, from Life after the 30-Second Spot
Cultural -- buy in (Step 3)
Organizational - change (Step 2)
Strategic - architecture (Step 1)
Tactical - implementation (Step 4)
The new flipped funnel A.D.I.A. -- pg. 57
Acknowledgement
Dialogue
Incentivization
Activitation
Q. Is this a new function we're talking about -- a combination of customer satisfaction meets social media marketing? In some organizations there is a customer satisfaction function that is separate from marketing. Also some marketing departments have a research function, but it sounds like you are advocating that research become a part of the marketing/customer experience. How does this work practically?
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About Peter Clayton
Peter Clayton, Producer/Host, is an award-winning producer/director of radio, television, documentary, video, interactive and Web-based media who has created breakthrough media for a wide array of Fortune 100 clients.
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