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HR Technology Interviews

Solving Mobile Apply: Indeed Acquires MoBolt


A conversation with Chris Hyams, SVP of Product and International at Indeed

Published on July 15 2014
SVP of Product and International at Indeed Chris Hyams, TotalPicture Radio interviewChris Hyams

One in Every Two Job Searches is Now on a Mobile Device

Last year at the Mobile Recruiting Conference (MREC) in Atlanta I met two very nice people; Ashile Collins and Scott Garrett, part of a new start-up called MoBolt, a company providing a critical solution for companies: allowing job seekers to apply for open positions using a mobile device.

Welcome to a HR Technology Channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio, with Peter Clayton reporting. If you work for a company that does not allow for mobile apply - and chances are you do (since only about 10% of Fortune 500 companies have a mobile friendly application process) - your company is losing out big-time. The fall-off rate is huge - and if you work in retail, transportation, healthcare, fast food, and many other verticals, you are REALLY missing out, since many people working in these industries rely on their smart phones and tablets exclusively. According to a March 2013 CareerBulider survey, "Nearly one-third of's traffic each month comes from mobile devices; however, CareerBuilder tracking shows that as much as 40 percent of mobile candidates abandon the application process when they are notified they are about to encounter a non-mobile friendly apply process."

Fast-forward to SHRM Annual 2014 in Orlando - I get a press release - "Indeed agrees to acquire the MoBolt technology business to enable employers to accept mobile job applications from all job seekers."

Joining me today to discuss this acquisition is Chris Hyams, SVP, Product and international at Indeed.


Bill Boorman - The How and Why of an Advisory Board


As a Start-UP HR Technology Company, How You Develop and Compensate Your Advisory Board Will Be Critical to Your Success

Published on July 01 2014
Founder of #TruGlobal unconferences -TotalPicture Radio interviewBill Boorman

"The purpose of #HRTechTank is to connect, educate and promote innovators in the Human Resource Management & Recruitment software space."

This special HR Technology Presentation on TotalPicture Radio was recorded by Peter Clayton June 27, 2014, at #HRTechTank In New York.

In recruiting and HR circles, Bill Boorman needs no introduction. He is the Founder and Host of the Global#tru events. #Tru is an on-going series of recruiting, HR and technology events held across the globe. In 2013 there were 100 #tue unconferences held in 65 countries.

The community is made up of recruiters (corporate or agency), HR, technologists, talent acquisition, digital media, job board pros and more. No name badges, presentations or powerpoint, the emphasis is on the conversation on the key topics.

#HRTechTank is a new initiative: #HRTechTank is the HR Tech Industry Think Tank. The purpose of #HRTechTank is to connect, educate and promote innovators in the Human Resource Management & Recruitment software space.

"We bring top tier HR thought leaders and investors together to take a look at what is happening in the HR Tech space and to share their expertise with the most promising HR Tech companies."

It is not a pitching event and certainly not a competition but a real opportunity to discuss and share ideas with the brightest minds in our industry.

Watch the Video Version:

Bill Boorman - The How and Why of an Advisory Board from Peter Clayton on Vimeo.

Brin McCagg Disrupts the Traditional Contingency Recruiter Model


RecruitiFi Creates Gamification in Recruiting, Making Everyone a "Winner"

Published on June 24 2014
Brin McCagg co-founder and COO RecruitiFi-TotalPicture Radio interviewBrin McCagg

Crowdsourcing Top Recruiters and Their Candidates with RecruitiFi

"Good recruiters always have a large inventory of highly qualified and hand-vetted candidates that they've worked on, and what we do is we enable them to place them by allowing companies to send out to up to 250 expert recruiters in our network a what we call a jobcast."

Welcome to a HR Technology Channel Podcast on TotalPicture Radio, with Peter Clayton reporting.

I first met (and interviewed) Brin McCagg several years ago when he was President and co-Founder of OneWire, a leading career site for finance professionals, that goes way beyond the functionality of a traditional job board. I still have my OneWire baseball cap. Brin, however, being a serial entrepreneur type guy with an MBA from The Wharton School, set out to solve a new problem in the recruiting industry, founding a company called RecruitiFi. Here's how Brin describes his new venture on his LinkedIn profile:

"RecruitiFi is a crowd-sourcing platform that enables companies to quickly and efficiently fill any open position by leveraging the power and reach of thousands of expert agency recruiters. It is a new, supplemental category of search that delivers superb results, and saves companies time and money. Agency recruiters generate substantial incremental revenue with RecruitiFi by effortlessly placing their qualified, vetted and available candidates in open positions at new customers. RecruitiFi elegantly leverages technology delivering measurable results and bringing back the human element to recruiting."

Let's say you're a third-party agency recruiter. You've just completed a difficult search presenting four highly qualified candidates to your client. The hiring decision was difficult - any of the four candidates you presented could have easily stepped into the role. However, only one of your candidates was offered a position, which she accepted... leaving you with three excellent candidates you've spend a great deal of time cultivating and creating relationships with. That's where RecruitiFi comes in.

Let's say you're an in-house recruiter having a very difficult time finding the right candidate to fill a mission-critical role. It's been three months. The vp hiring manager is calling you daily. The division president has called you. You don't have the budget to pay a full agency commission. You are willing to do a lot of the legwork yourself - if you could just find qualified candidates willing to consider making a move to a your company. That's where RecruitiFi comes in.

Today, Brin will make you a believer. Tune in.

Brin McCagg TotalPicture Radio Interview Transcript

Crowdsourcing top candidates and recruiters with RecruitiFi. Today, I will speak with Founder Brin McCagg. Welcome to TotalPicture Radio. We produce cutting edge video and podcast interviews with a focus on talent acquisition, HR technology, leadership and innovation. Visit our conference and events page on TotalPicture Radio, that's to learn about TotalPicture Media's unique video and podcast service offerings at many of the must-attend tradeshows and conferences throughout the year.

I first met and interviewed Brin McCagg several years ago when he was president and co-founder of OneWire, a leading career site for finance professionals that really goes way beyond the functionality of a traditional job board. I actually still have my OneWire baseball cap! Brin, however, has been a serial entrepreneur guy with an MBA from The Wharton School and set out to solve a new problem in the recruiting industry and founded a start-up called RecruitiFi. If you're a recruiter in-house or third party or an employer looking to find great candidates, reduce your time to fill and reduce your talent acquisition costs, you want to have a listen to this.

Welcome to an HR technology channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton and joining me today from somewhere near the Grand Canyon is Brin McCagg. Brin, that's a pretty good set-up. So how about a quick RecruitiFi elevator pitch; what is it and what problem are you guys solving?

Brin: Good morning, Peter and it's great to be here or good to be here out in the Grand Canyon, but great to be on your show. What RecruitiFi does is it helps companies recruit more efficiently and helps agency recruiters, headhunters more efficiently place the inventory of candidates that they have. What happens is that third-party agency recruiters do a lot of work, a lot of great work. They go out and they vet candidates, they interview them, they background check them and they do a lot of work in selling them on open job positions. And when they're retained by a company, they end up usually placing one of those candidates. But they often have several other great candidates or often a search is cancelled or they've been talking to some great candidates recently about various positions that they're not currently searching for.

So good recruiters always have a large inventory of highly qualified and hand-vetted candidates that they've worked on, and what we do is we enable them to place them by allowing companies to send out to up to 250 expert recruiters in our network a what we call a jobcast, which is an announcement of an open-job position that specifies the location and the salary range and the job description and we match relevant recruiters to the jobcast based on their location and based on their industry that they focus on and based on the level that they focus on. Those recruiters can contribute up to four candidates that they have hand-vetted, so to speak, and they have to put in complete information. They have to put in a résumé. They have to put in a LinkedIn link and they have to put in full contact information of the candidate, and they have to put in a note about the candidate. They can only put in four candidates because we want them to really think about who they're submitting.

We have a very slick interface that allows companies to send a jobcast in a matter of two minutes or less and recruiters typically respond within the first two or three days. Most of the action happens right away. We've been having a great success rate of helping companies fill positions and what they can do is they can swipe through those candidates very quickly and putting them in yes/no or maybe folders and we give the recruiter visibility as to the progress of their candidate.

So it also helps them avoid what we call that résumé black hole syndrome where they submit candidates and they don't know what goes on. So companies are getting the power and the reach and the value of third-party agency recruiters but in a much sort of faster format and also at a much lower fee because we charge one fee. It's one contract, the company uses our platform, our contract is the contract in place with all the recruiters. They don't have to deal with the recruiters. The recruiters cannot contact them unless the company contacts the recruiters directly which they can do if they want but they don't need to and they only pay a flat 14% fee when they make a hire and if they make a hire. We collect that fee and then we split that fee in an interesting way. We give 10% to the winning recruiter. Either the recruiter that submits the candidate that gets placed and then we give 1% to the runner-up candidates, which I'll talk about a little more later, but just to give them... what I mean by that is the recruiters that submit candidates that get put into the yes folder, and then we give a half a point to the candidate to confirm their start date and their salary and then we keep 2½ percentage points. It's a much more efficient platform for everyone to work in.

Peter: I'm interested in the acceptance of recruiters to this process that you just described, Brin. I mean, you're asking them to give up the company jewels, so to speak, when you're having them input all of the contact information of their particular candidates. Have you found resistance to this type of a situation? Tell us a little bit about what kind of guarantees that recruiters get that all of this contact information that they're providing you will not get abused within the network.

Brin: The reaction we've been getting from recruiters has been incredible. Recruiters have been signing up in droves. They see this as a real game changer. For them, it's the ability to basically turn more of their candidate inventory and do it faster and easier. They're not doing sort of half the work, they're not going out and getting the company, we are, and it's a really easy interface for them to interact with.

We definitely have a lot of protections. We obviously are working together with the recruiter to help on collections. We collect the money but we're collecting the money for the recruiter and we're tracking that company and we can track the candidates as the company not only looks at the candidate when they open up the contact information, when they put the candidate in a yes or no or maybe folder, we can track all that information and bill the company when they've made a hire. We also pay the candidate to come back and confirm their hire date and salary. We've got a lot of ways to protect collecting the fee, and then when we collect the money, we obviously pay our recruiters.

It's a transactional site. It's not a site candidate database in the sense that we're looking to drain a recruiter's database into a company's ATS system. It's just the opposite; we're trying to bring back the human element to recruiting and help third-party agency recruiters get back in the game and place more candidates because there's nothing that can replace their value in the way that they can vet a candidate, sell a candidate on a position and that handholding is something that I don't think the technology can ever really fully replace.

Peter: I certainly understand and appreciate the value you're bringing to recruiters because as you said, they go through a lot of work to find these candidates and they often times present four or five candidates to their client and the client is going to hire one and then they've got these other three or four people whom they've established great relationships with obviously because they presented them, they vetted them, they've gone through all of the work that a recruiter goes through before presenting a candidate. So this is, I think, a great concept.

Brin: We're very excited by it. We definitely think we are on to something pretty big and we're definitely getting some great results.

Peter: I heard you talk about recruiting being an easy business to enter but a hard business to be successful in, and I think that's been especially true over the past five or six years going through this recession that we're now finally coming out of.

Brin: I think that when people look at the recruiting industry they think of fees anywhere from 20% to 33% of first year's compensation or salary and they think, oh my gosh, if I just place a couple of guys at $200,000, I'm going to make a very significant income, and in a sense anybody can open up a recruiting agency. So I think it's an easy business to enter. I think it's very difficult to be good at it and that goes for companies too; I think a lot of companies are finding over the last five years they've in-sourced their recruiting effort and they've struggled with that in many cases because it's a difficult task to go find the right talent that is not only right for your company from a skill set point of view but also from a cultural point of view and also getting that talent at the moment that they want to make a change. Anybody could find anybody on LinkedIn at this point. That's pretty easy. That game is sort of over the candidate database and what you need to do is find the candidate that's ready, willing, and able to move to a new position and that's the value a great recruiter provides.

Peter: Right. Right. And I think...

Brin: And it's more difficult than it looks.

Peter: Yeah, exactly. To that point I think a lot of people think recruiting is really easy. You just go onto LinkedIn and you find some people who have the skills and you get a hold of them, but there is a lot more involved and it's a profession. It's a real profession. If you haven't been trained, if you aren't really passionate about doing that, it's not going to work for you.

Brin: Yeah, I totally agree. A great recruiter does a great job and can deliver great candidates. So I think we believe great third-party agency recruiters that are in our network are hungry, they're motivated, they're agile in a sense that you can dial them up and dial them down when you need them from a company's cost perspective and most importantly, they're highly skilled at what they do and they can read the nuances of a situation and get the right candidate at the right time.

Peter: I want to return to this split fee arrangement that you've created for recruiters. It's almost sort of a gamification, if you will, of the process. Can you go a little bit more in depth than that and unpack that for us exactly how this whole thing works?

Brin: A lot has been written about gamification. A lot of great companies like Google and others are using gamification to motivate people. We think gamification is perfectly suited for our process on the RecruitiFi platform because what we do is we award points and cash money to recruiters that in a sense provide value and what we could do is as a recruiter submits candidates traditionally in a recruiting process, it was a winner take all market from the beginning of time, so to speak, and that was great for the winner, i.e., the recruiter that submitted the candidate that got hired. What happened was all the other recruiters get very demotivated because they get nothing.

What we do is when recruiters submit candidates in our platform, when a company looks at those candidates, they have to swipe the candidate into a yes/no or maybe folder to get to the next candidate. So every candidate has to be put in to a folder. It's a very fast process to look at the candidates. All the information is there and then you can categorize them in yes/no or maybe and then you get the next candidate. And what we can do with that is we can calculate a recruiter... we can give a score to a recruiter because a recruiter that submits a lot of great candidates that get put into the yes category we give them points and we also will give them cash award; we split that 1% of 1 point out of the 14 percentage points we give to those recruiters who submit candidates they get put into the yes category. So what we do the end result is recruiters are building up award points and getting cash even if they don't make/submit the candidate that gets hired but those points enable us to start to score recruiters.

What we do is when a company sends out a jobcast and typically about 20 recruiters on average submit candidates back, the question is how do we stack rank those candidates? We stack rank them based on the score of the recruiter. So if the recruiter behind the scenes has done a lot of great work in previous jobcasts and submitted candidates that have either gotten hired or have gotten put into the yes folder, they're going to have a higher score than say a recruiter that submitted a lot of candidates that got put into the no category and therefore, that recruiter's candidates are going to be stacked at the top of the pile.

The company is not only getting the benefit of the human element of recruiters, it's also we're able to score them and give them the best results of the top. And what that does for the recruiter is it gives them a high degree of motivation because they see their score and, by the way, they can redeem their points for various awards that we're developing - they see their score and they obviously get cash awards for candidates into the yes category and that motivates them to really submit only candidates that are highly qualified and to not waste anyone's time, so to speak. So often recruiters will submit one or two candidates. They can only submit up to four. So we're getting great results from that.

Peter: Let's jump over to the employer's side of this equation for a minute, Brin and talk about what the advantages are beyond obviously an attractive commission rate for employers to use your platform.

Brin: We just published a white paper on the best practices of sourcing candidates which can be found on our blog at and when a company goes out to search, I mean just think about it, there's only a couple of ways they can do it. The best way and the first way they should always do it is look internally for redeploying their own people or looking internally for referrals from their own employees at their own network. That's a no brainer. It's fastest, it's cheapest and it usually gets the best cultural fit.

But after that then they face the choice. If they're a company with an established internal recruiting team they can start to go use job boards which have had less and less good outcomes. They could then go look on LinkedIn which is a great resource but it's a tremendous amount of work and you get a lot of unresponsive candidates and you really have to know how to work that platform to get great results, and it's fairly expensive. But if that doesn't work where they don't have the resources, internal people power to do that, their next choice is to go to a third-party agency recruiter either on a retained or contingency basis and typically pay anywhere from 20% to 33% the first year's compensation. We've really put a new category of recruiting into the mix and it's sort of after you've looked internally, after you've potentially used job boards and if you've got the resources poked around on LinkedIn, RecruitiFi enables companies to leverage again that power and reach and value of third-party agency recruiters in a much easier to use application. It's one contract, it's one fee, it takes minutes to try and you get back results almost instantly and within a few days. Usually a jobcast has produced finalist candidates.

If that still doesn't work, they can always go out and take the next step of hiring a third-party agency recruiter, but we believe we've created a really efficient new category that benefits both recruiters and companies.

I might just add one thing that what the platform does is it creates a serendipitous matchup. It's the matchup between your job opening and a recruiter that happens to have a candidate at that moment. It's not a platform really to go out and retain a search firm to go do a search on a linear basis. It's just creating that jobcast. Recruiters get it and it's the recruiters who happen to have done a similar search or happen to have known candidates or spoken to candidates recently that are applicable that submit those candidates and again they usually do it in the first two or three days, and it's just a very quick and rapid platform to get results.

Peter: You bring up an interesting point here and I'd like you to... this is something that you explained to me offline. The difference between what you're doing and what an executive search or retained executive search firm does, so can you kind of explain to us what the difference is between the RecruitiFi platform and what typically a retained search firm is going to do for an employer.

Brin: Basically, what RecruitiFi does is it's one platform, one contract and one fee and it's leveraging sort of the power and the reach and value of hundreds of recruiters at a time that are very specific to the position that you're searching for. So it's really simple and fast to use. It takes just a few minutes to send out a jobcast and you don't have to deal with the recruiters. So you're not negotiating contracts, you're not communicating with the recruiters. They cannot see your contact information on our platform, and it's obviously roughly half the fee of a traditional search and it's much, much faster. Again, it's creating that serendipitous matchup. It's looking for the recruiters that happen to have candidates at that moment.

What we found is we limit a company to sending out a jobcast up to 250 recruiters at a time and we're finding that about 10% of them respond which is about what we initially anticipated and they typically respond with anywhere from 1, again up to 4 candidates, and the end result is is that right away you're getting great candidates.

With a third-party agency recruiter, whether it's retained or contingent which we encourage if companies want to go that route, there's no substitute for the value and the handholding and the vetting that a great third-party agency recruiter could do but it does come at a fairly expensive cost. First of all, you have to go out and find them and you may know a great recruiter but you may choose the wrong one and so how do you find the right recruiter that's right there in and of itself a challenge.

Number two, you've got to go out and negotiate a contract with that recruiter which takes a lot of time back and forth negotiations not only the fee but all the guarantees and all that go around placing candidates in the companies. And then you've got to go and obviously convey the job position to that recruiter and then they go out and do what I call linear search. They're going out and looking for candidates in their database, on LinkedIn, and other resources that they use and they'll bring back candidates to you. That process can take literally a month, two or three easily. You'll usually get great results if they're a good recruiter but there's a lot of work and a lot of cost in that process.

Peter: Let's talk about candidates for a minute. Can they upload their résumé or CV into your database?

Brin: No. We're not candidate database at all. In fact, our jobcast lasts for 30 days and when they're over, that's it. A company can renew the jobcast and look at candidates if they want but we don't view ourselves as a place for candidates to build a profile. I believe that LinkedIn has sort of won the day on the candidate database.

Peter: Right, they sure have.

Brin: And also everybody has an ATS now so there's plenty of databases of candidates.

What we do is candidates are submitted only by third-party agency recruiters that know them and have vetted them and have all of their information. Again, you can't submit a candidate without all of their complete information. Right now there's not a lot for candidates to do on the platform. We are about to launch an ambassador program which allows professionals or individuals to refer companies into our platform and they can make money from doing that. But other than that, there's not a lot for candidates to do except to get jobs.

Peter: You brought up ATS so obviously we have to get on to this topic because every company today with, I don't know, over 100 employees I would guess has an applicant tracking system and many in the enhance talent acquisition services such as what you're offering, the ATS quite frankly becomes a bottleneck for the recruiters because they don't talk nicely to one another. How are you addressing that situation with integrating what RecruitiFi is doing within an applicant tracking system?

Brin: I'm really impressed with what's happened in the applicant tracking market. There's been a whole host of new players Greenhouse is a great one, Jobvite, Smartrecruiter, Workable and others have come into the market and have grabbed significant market share from fast growing companies, and then you have obviously the traditional players like Taleo and Successfactors and Kenexa. But what we're doing is we're integrating with them and we're integrating with a whole bunch of them very quickly.

The ability to integrate with them more and more of these platforms are open, and a great applicant tracking system is only as great as the candidates that they can attract into it. Applicant tracking systems have sourcing tools where they can obviously push the job out to job boards, Indeed and LinkedIn and other resources, and when they integrate with us, they gain the advantage of having a new category of sourcing for their clients to source candidates from our pool of expert network recruiters.

So they're loving what we're doing and in fact, next Tuesday on July 8, I believe, we're co-hosting with Greenhouse, a top applicant tracking system a panel on sourcing. The applicant tracking systems, we're working with a lot of them.

Peter: One other thing I need to bring up here because as you know every conference you go to these days in the recruiting or HR world, there are two main topics. One is big data. The other one is mobile. When you go to RecruitiFi's website the first thing you see is a big smartphone. Tell us about your integration on mobile platforms.

Brin: I was just reading a report by Mary Meeker who works now at Kleiner Perkins and her calculations were that almost 30% of internet traffic is now coming from mobile devices and anybody that uses these devices knows that they do more and more of their work on their smartphones, on their iPads and other mobile devices.

First of all, our platform is fully mobile compatible, meaning it's the right size for any mobile device so that you can access it on a mobile device and our need to deliver our service to people in a mobile format I believe is essential. I think a lot of people are going to want to send jobcasts when they're on the train commuting or look through candidates and swipe through 20 or 30 candidates while they're commuting in and out of the office or travelling. So right now, we're mobile compatible and we are going to build a mobile app soon. That's high on our priorities, I can tell you.

Peter: We've been speaking mainly about kind of the big picture kind of things. I love to get personal stories in these interviews if I can. Can you share with us maybe one or two real world stories that you know of with people whom have used your platform and how that has been successful.

Brin: We've had incredible results. I mean, right now most of the jobcasts have been fairly recent because we're a very new application, but on the jobcasts that have been sent, we're usually getting anywhere from 15 to sort of 40 candidates again, in the first couple of days it usually takes, and the results have been incredible.

A midsize, well-known, boutique investment bank recently sent a jobcast where they were looking for a third year associate and an MBA associate position and we were able to deliver them candidates that went to schools like Wharton and Harvard Business School that worked at companies like Morgan Stanley and Blackrock. In fact, one of the kids was president of their class at Princeton and had worked at a top firm and had gotten an MBA from Wharton's. They were sort of blown away at the results. Again, it all happened in the first few days. It goes from those kinds of finance positions over to tech positions.

Another midsize tech firm in New York that had about 250 employees was looking for a chief technology officer and again, the same sort of results. Within a couple of days we got them incredible candidates for one of the toughest positions to fill probably across the country which is chief technology officers.

We're getting great results at sort of all levels for both big companies and small companies, and so we're pretty excited about that.

Peter: Given the data you're seeing and the conversations that you're having out there with recruiters and with employers, do you think the employment picture is going to continue to improve throughout the year?

Brin: I'm not a macroeconomist but I am an optimist and a believer in the US economy and I do believe that people, there's probably a lot demand still emerging from this last recession. I do think there is a incredible technology innovation wave that's happening with new applications, like Uber or Airbnb, that are creating incredible results in this shared economy, so to speak. I think that we've got quite a ways to go in terms of growth in this economy because technology and innovation create employment and more efficiency, so I think that there's a ways to go before we have our next downturn.

We're seeing companies hiring that's for sure.

Peter: That's great. We love to hear that. Brin, thank you very much for taking time to speak with us today. One last thing, is there anything we haven't discussed that you would like to share with the audience?

Brin: I appreciate that, Peter. Just that we're excited about what we're doing. We think that we've really created a sort of a new category of search. Again, when you're looking at how to go about searching for candidates as a company is always a challenge. We recommend sort of that you look internally and then potentially at job boards and LinkedIn, but that we fit very nicely as the next category before you might go to an agency recruiter. We're excited about creating the results that are getting third-party agency recruiters back in the game, and that's really ultimately what we want to do and what we're developing is additional ways for them to make money and to be sort of re-engaged. We're going to come out with additional services and features for third-party agency recruiters beyond just being able to submit the jobcast candidates but other ways for them to make money because they've had - due to the recession and due to companies in-sourcing their recruiting departments and using platforms like LinkedIn, third-party agency recruiters have suffered over the last five or six years and have had a tougher time, and we think they add a tremendous amount of value. They're experts at what they do and there's no replacement for sort of that human element and that we can create ways for them to leverage their value and make more money with additional resources. So stay tuned for that. We'll be announcing some of that soon.

Peter: Again, Brin thank you very much for taking time to speak with us today here on TotalPicture Radio.

Brin: Great. Thank you, Peter.

We've been speaking with Brin McCagg, Founder at RecruitiFi. Visit Brin's show page for a complete transcript of this interview resource links, and more information available in the HR Technology Channel of TotalPicture Radio that's While there, sign up for our newsletter. It's quick, easy and free. Connect with our TotalPicture Radio community on Facebook and follow me on Twitter @peterclayton and @totalpicture. I'm happy to connect on LinkedIn to our listeners; just be sure to indicate that you listen to TotalPicture Radio when sending the invitation. Thanks for listening.

Michael Beygelman, CEO Joberate - Predictive Analytics for HR and Recruiting


A conversation with the winner of the 2014 iTalent Competition at HRO Today Forum, Michael Beygelman

Published on June 05 2014
Michael Beygelman, CEO Joberate -TotalPicture Radio interviewMichael Beygelman
Welcome to a HR Technology Channel Podcast on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton reporting. Last year I met Michael Beygelman at the HRO Today Forum. My friend and client Mark Finn interviewed Michael for TotalPicture Radio. At the time, Michael was the President of Pontoon, a successful RPO (recruitment process outsourcer) and MSP (managed service provider).

When Michael took the stage this year at the HRO Today Forum's iTalent Competition it was as CEO of Joberate, a company providing predictive analytics for HR and recruitment. His presentation was a hit with the iTalent Competition Judges -- Debbie Bolla, Andrew Gadomski, Bill Filip, Ilya Breyman, and Elaine Orler: Joberate came in first place.

Michael joined Joberate in January of this year.

TotalPicture Radio Transcript: Michael Beygelman, CEO Joberate

Welcome to an HR Technology Channel podcast here on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton reporting. Last year, I met Michael Beygelman at the HRO Today Forum. My friend and client Mark Finn interviewed Michael for TotalPicture Radio. At the time he was RPO president of Pontoon, a successful RPO (recruitment process outsourcer) and MSP (management service provider).

When Michael took the stage this year at HRO Today's Forum in the iTalent Competition, it was as CEO of Joberate, a company providing predictive analytics for HR and recruitment. His presentation was a real hit with the iTalent Competition judges; Joberate came in first place.

Michael, congratulations on your iTalent win and welcome back to TotalPicture Radio.

Michael: Thanks so much for having me, Peter. I appreciate it.

Peter: When you joined Joberate back in January of this year, you had a pretty good job, seems to me as RPO President of Pontoon. So why did you decide to accept the CEO role at Joberate?

Michael: That's a great question, thank you. I had spent nearly 8 years with the organization. Pontoon is actually a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Adecco Group. You may be familiar with them. They're a fairly large global staffing provider, $25-28 billion, something like that.

Peter: That's pretty big!

Michael: Yeah, it's pretty big. It's one of our claims to fame at the Adecco Group is we were a top 5 employer globally in terms of how many people we employ at any given day in the world. So that was kind of interesting.

I had actually started the RPO business for the Adecco Group, which was incredible. I had joined as a consultant many years ago, stayed on, worked with the CEO directly and had the privilege of taking an idea and turning it into a business with more than 100 global clients in more than 40 countries. It was an incredible run of 8 years. It was a lot of fun, met a lot of great people. It's a great organization.

Going through that, being in the recruitment side, we really positioned ourselves as innovators. One of the reasons why I decided that it was a good idea for me to join Joberate is that I really wanted to continue down the innovation front. I really looked at recruitment and felt that it's sort of gotten a bit stagnant over the last couple of years. We had sort of a lot of innovation coming out of the gate, but really over the last couple of years, it became more difficult. There was really just point improvements.

I saw what Joberate was doing and I thought that we could disrupt the paradigm and do something different and unique and really help the industry. So for me personally, I really like building and I like innovating and I like to help solve real world problems.

I kind of viewed joining Joberate as the CEO as sort of the next step or the evolution in my journey. It wasn't a sideway step. It was just really a step in a different direction in terms of focusing more on the technology. If I told you that I don't miss working with all of my Pontoon colleagues, I would probably be a liar.

Peter: Right, yeah. In my intro, I mentioned that Joberate is into predictive analytics, which of course along with big data is one of those terms getting used a lot in HR and recruiting conferences. It's the buzzword du jour, so to speak. So explain to us exactly what predictive analytics means for specifically recruiting and HR.

Michael: You are right. If you remember when I was on the stage, I almost didn't know what to say. I said, wow I thought I was going to talk about predictive analytics but apparently everybody's doing it. So it was kind of a joke and everybody laughed.

Let's talk about this in really, really simplistic terms. If you think about HR to business function, recruiting is a business function. So any business function today has to have some level of reporting. And so the value stream of how you get the predictive analytics starts at the very fundamental rudimentary sort of level of traditional reporting. Traditional reporting basically allows the manager or the recruiter to say what happened. It usually measures results, efficiency, compliance, etc.

And then you get, let's say to the next level, then people would want to know okay, why did that happen; and then you kind of get more the dynamic reporting. You add the aggregate various pieces of data from different sources. You do some benchmarking, some validation - again, all these terms you hear a lot at different conferences. And that kind of says, okay we've benchmarked five or six things, now we know why this happened.

Then you get to the next level, really it's sort of the executive level and they kind of want to know, okay so what's happening now. What's happening now is really what I would call data analysis. You have to look at relational models of how things correlate to one another, understanding cause and effect, use some statistical analysis, and you kind of get these what I would call just in time reports - for a lack of a better term - about what's happening now. Where predictive analytics sit (and that's kind of why the joke was funny), is that what I basically described is what most businesses do at various levels of success.

What predictive analytics is really about, it's about saying what can happen or what does the future hold. And analytic is simply just a fancy term for a data point with some sort of context.

Peter: Right.

Michael: So when you talk about predictive analytics, essentially for HR and recruitment, you're talking about developing predictive models. The best example I can give you is something like a FICO score. A FICO score, for a credit sort of history says that this person will either pay their bills or they will not pay their bills, they're either a good credit risk or a bad credit risk.

Predictive analytics in terms of HR could be applied to different things. For example, if you look at predictive analytics around assessment, they could tell you how likely someone is going to be successful at a job, just in simple terms. If you look at, do you have predictive analytics around behavioral studies, they could say how likely is this person going to fit into this work group.

What we focus on is we focus on tracking job seeking behavior so that specific aspect. So our predictive analysts will tell you how likely someone is to take the job. That's really important, which is interesting because if you think about on the recruitment side, because the predictive analytics could be used for both recruitment and HR, Peter, if you think about it on the recruitment side, it really - I'm going to say something sort of stupid simple, so don't laugh. People go, 'I'm really having a hard time finding JAVA developers.' You kind of hear this. Or pick your skill set.

Peter: Exactly.

Michael: I'm having a hard time finding people that understand Hadoop, some esoteric skill set. What they're really saying is they're not having a hard time finding it; go Google them, you're going to find 10,000 of them. What they're basically saying is, I'm having a hard time finding someone with the skill set that wants to take this job. That's a very different thing.

Peter: Yeah, you're right. There are a lot of JAVA developers out there.

Michael: Of course! Don't tell me you're having a hard time finding one. I can find you 3 million, I can tell you where they are, and I can give you their numbers. That doesn't mean they're going to take your job.

I'm sorry for being so funny, but you kind of get the point.

Peter: Yeah, absolutely. Let's take this into a real world example and let's use a Valley example. I'm looking for a software engineer with mainframe, cloud integration experience, working in financial services. Could I use Joberate to go out into the Ethernet out there and find someone who may not be that excited about their current job and would at least talk to me?

Michael: That's a much more relevant question. That makes sense now. I would tell you that in order to find that person, there's lots of great companies out there that help you do that. Companies like Gild, companies like Entelo, companies like CareerBuilder and Monster that have big databases of people.

Joberate does not focus on doing semantic search or natural language processing about founding your proverbial needle in the haystack with some skill sets, because we think that there's a lot of tools that can help you do that. What we do is we tell you how likely they are to take your job, and if they were, what area and if how, then how much, etc.

What we can tell you is once you've identified an individual to say, okay this is a person of interest, kind of a little bit like that show Person of Interest on CBS. Once you've identified a person of interest or people of interest, we can then tell you how likely of those people are to be interested in your job. We could stack rank them. We could tell you who's active, semi-active, passive, active. We can tell you the level of their job seeking.

The reality is this, as a recruiter, you could probably have this sort of basket of 30-40 candidates that from a skill set would say fit a job. Now you don't want to waste your time bombarding people with spam and email and doing all this outbound marketing to people who actually are not at a place and time in their life when they're going to consider changing a job. They're just not.

Peter: Right.

Michael: So why focus on spending any time and effort on people if you know that they're not going to be interested in the job? It's a waste of time and money. So we kind of help recruiters become more effective by helping them focus on people that are in a position to change a job, and how we get to that is through the technology that we've built. We've built this sort of machine learning predictive analytics engine that tracks people's job seeking behavior and alerts recruiters, that's why our product is called Signal. It's not very sort of... it's somewhat intuitive that it would be called Signal.

Essentially what it does is alerts recruiters to people that have become in a status where they consider accepting a job. It makes a recruiter's job much easier. So essentially, as opposed to spending a lot of time sending out thousands of emails to people, they could focus on 8 to 10 people that would most likely take the job.

Peter: Focusing now on what you just talked about, how do you define machine learning?

Michael: Machine learning is the process which a computer actually makes decisions and tells you what to do. Some of the things that we have learned through their journeys - again, I'm sort of captain obvious, but the reality is -- is that if all you're doing is you're getting infographics and all these wonderful dashboards, all they're doing is presenting a human being with a lot more information that's really well organized. But at the end of the day, the human being has to process and analyze all that information to make a decision.

So in a strange way and you'll kind of hear this, people have implemented some of these tremendous analytics platforms, they'll tell you, wow I have so much data now, I don't know what to do with it.

Peter: Right. You hear that a lot.

Michael: This is a common problem, right?

Peter: Yeah, exactly.

Michael: Toxicity, it's almost like you have too much data. The challenge is that - so when you talk about machine learning in context of predictive analytics, the computer basically tells you what to do. The computer doesn't give you a lot of data for you to decide what you think you should do. This is the next evolution of how we can get better at it and also become more efficient.

So again, I'll use the credit card fraud system. Imagine American Express, if their credit card fraud system was just analytics as opposed to machine learning predictive analytics, essentially what would happen is, is we would have to have an operator sit in front of 39 million monitors and watch every single card transaction. And they would have to be so good that they could spot a credit card transaction on monitor 30,000,972. I think that's fraud, quick, quick, quick, call the merchant and tell them not to accept... It's impossible. ☺ ☺ It's impossible.

So what happens is, is that financial services companies create these machine learning predictive analytics engines that basically do not have the need for human intervention.

Peter: Right.

Michael: Now let me say, that's kind of like one example. The other example is actually quite simple, You log onto It says, Hey Mike, long time no hear, or something like that. Thanks for coming back. By the way, here's these 12 really cool books that we think you'll like.

Peter: Right. Just click on your one click and we'll send them to you this afternoon.

Michael: Amen, right. So that's machine learning and that's predictive analytics because what happens is, the computer keeps track of all your behaviors. It catalogues those behaviors. Every time you have new patterns of surfing, it catalogues those patterns of surfing. It retrains itself to know if your flavor has changed. Do I like this flavor today? Do I like that flavor tomorrow? Do I like this author today? Do I like that author tomorrow?

I could tell you that for a while there, I was going to and I was looking for a chemical compound to clean my headlights because after the years, they get all scuffed up. So then interestingly enough, the next time I logged onto, I really wasn't offered a book; I was offered five different variations of chemicals to clean headlights. So it's kind of those sort of things.

This is kind of how machine learning works and it doesn't require any human reaction. And the longer you stay a client of Amazon or Netflix, is another example, in the Joberate context, the longer we have track of the profiles and the more profiles are there, the better the system gets.

Peter: Right. And I imagine you can extend that to Facebook, to Twitter, to LinkedIn; they're gathering all this data as well.

Michael: Exactly. Actually, you bring up a good point. I kind of want to just pause here and address a certain point. I think the whole concept of a person's digital footprint today is kind of a bit of a hot potato in terms of being is it ethical, is it moral, all these things. I don't want to go down the ethics or the morality path, other than to say that there are data service providers that work with all the social media outlets and various companies that are on the internet. These data service providers actually provide a valuable function because they aggregate the data, they clean the data, they tag the data, they categorize the data, they do all these things.

Our business model is we actually work with these third-party data service providers, companies like DataSift for example, or companies like or companies like Gnip. This is what they do for a living. They basically take a lot of data, just oodles and oodles of data, a really big funnel at the top and they kind of help to categorize it. And then we basically use those data services to clean and sanitize the data to make sure that we have the right information about a person.

This way, we don't have to rely on a 1:6,000 kind of a connection. For us, it's a 1:1, and these data service providers work with the 6, 7, 8, 10, 12,000, sort of the cloud of digital information that's out there.

Peter: Right. You bring up an interesting point because there's a lot of conversation around I'm being spied on, I'm being stalked, I'm being tracked, I've not agreed to any of this. There's a lot of that kind of conversation out there.

Michael: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's interesting because people, and this is kind of interesting, who actually sits and reads the terms and conditions of LinkedIn before they accept? No one.

Peter: Exactly. Or iTunes or Amazon or anybody else, Netflix.

Michael: If you actually took everything at the full letter of the law, no one would even own a computer.

Peter: Exactly.

Michael: But that's the thing. So what's interesting is that we seem to neglect the fact that when we sign up for all these great services, the reality is that some of these services are new and they don't really have a business model. That's just the truth. And the only way that they can subsidize their operations is really by selling their data. I mean it's just the way it is.

Peter: Right.

Michael: This is not new. Credit card companies do it all the time. I mean think about how much junk you get in the mail. I get at least five letters from either Discover or American Express or the Chase United card per week.

Peter: Right, exactly. You can throw in AT&T Uverse or whatever it is that's...

Michael: Yeah, they send them to me every week for 9 years. It's like, I haven't signed up yet. I'm probably not going to.

So this is not new and I do believe there's some sensitivity to it, but I think it's also a generational thing. If you think about it, we're entering let's say a different phase of mankind's evolution where transparency is becoming the norm. Everything used to be private. Now everything's in the public domain.

Frankly, it's like people are posting things at the public domain that shouldn't be posted. But that's a whole different conversation. But essentially, transparency is becoming the norm and if you're not above board and if you're not willing to do everything under the scrutiny of a microscope, then it's difficult to be that individual or that company.

So I think that to some extent, I'm hoping that over the next decade, over the next 15 years, this conversation will die down. But now, I think we're sort of on the adopter's curve or probably in the early adopter's phase of it, so it's almost natural for these kinds of conversations to happen.

Peter: Right. Sort of to that same point, if you look at generational differences from the standpoint of video interviews, for instance, Michael.

Michael: Yes.

Peter: The Gen-Y'ers, the Millennials, they like to do video interviews. They prefer actually doing a video interview to a live one-on-one interview, where baby boomers hate video interviewing.

Michael: Yeah, for sure. I travel a lot and it's interesting because I can look at the younger generation - this is no joke, they'll be sitting in an airport four seats apart texting each other.

Peter: Right.

Michael: It's just how it is and I think that the pace of change is accelerating. But overall, the reality is you have to go out 10 to 15 years, I remember when video interviewing first started and the biggest problem was the lawyers. The lawyers [TALKING OVER]

Peter: EEOC stuff, right?

Michael: It was EEOC compliance was like...

Peter: Oh my god, we can't do this.

Michael: People will discriminate. I'm like, hello, they're already discriminating!

Peter: Yeah.

Michael: So if anything, they'll stop discriminating because now it'll be transparent. So I think that video interviewing is actually a great business case for perception versus reality. It was a lot of perception that video interviewing would lead to more discrimination. In fact, it has actually eliminated discrimination because it has made these things much more visible. It's also enabled great people to shine and enabled companies to find great people because very early on, they're developing a relationship with an individual much better than a paper CV which really doesn't say anything about an individual.

And you know this. I laugh at - not to digress, but I laugh at the whole CV concept, how that's just really not evolved as fast as it should have. I mean I personally know people that have five LinkedIn profiles. It's like, which one do you want to see?

Peter: Right.

Michael: I could be the PhD. I could be the marketer. I could be the sales guy. I could be whoever you want me to be because it's just a piece of paper. Whereas in a video interview, it tells you a lot more about an individual because it forces them to sort of interact with you. Yeah, I agree with you.

Peter: Back to Joberate, on your website, you talk about helping your clients reduce employee attrition. How do you do that?

Michael: See, what's interesting is is we looked at our target market and our go-to market strategy, and we quickly realized that helping companies keep great people is actually a bigger problem than helping them find great people. Because if you think about it, companies they don't hire 100% of their staff every year, or at least they hope not to.

The real key here, and if you look at all the research that was done, whether it's by PWC or The Corporate Executive or whoever, you kind of see that retention is really a top three priority for every CEO, if not number one. So we kind of, how should I say, structured our technology to naturally be more, I should say have a bigger ROI for HR.

Recruitment is - how should I say? We view recruitment as an event. This year, I need 300 people. Next year I don't need 300 people. Versus from an HR context, talent management, workforce management, mobility, all these things, that's perennial. It goes on as long as the company exists.

So we wanted to focus specifically on the HR piece and help HR to retain really good people. This is kind of a 2-part question or statement, is what's really happened is if you think about up until really, let's say early '90s, at the height of when the internet was really coming to pass and just kind of coming out of its hiding. Up until that time, just about all the information that a company had about the individual represented probably 90% of the information that the individual has.

They knew your birthday. They knew where you lived. They knew your marital status. They knew about your kids, your mom, your dad, where you went to school. They knew everything about you. All that information used to sit inside the company's walls, their HRIS.

And then society was also such that - I remember my dad told me that having fun at your job was, that's not reality. You should be lucky to have a job. Right?

Peter: Right.

Michael: So society also brought you up to kind of stay in one place for a long time. So attrition and information about an individual to help companies retain them wasn't really an issue because they knew 90-95% about you anyway. And society was such that you weren't going to go anywhere anyway because it was frowned upon because you're a job hopper.

What's basically now changed is attrition is an issue because the internet made it very easy for people to look for jobs. It is just, if you have 20 minutes, you can go to the bathroom, take out your iPhone and you can find 50 jobs. So it's like you don't have to do that appointment anymore.

Attrition becomes an issue. If you look at what our technology does, it basically tracks job seeking behavior. We actually could basically deliver content information to a company about their own employees' job seeking behavior. For example, you could look at a global view and we could tell you by the country how many people you have in each country that are potentially at risk for leaving. And then you can drill down to the individual level. Then you can compare for example, one hiring manager with another.

For example, you can have a view to say, here's five hiring managers in our Murray Hill, New Jersey building. I'm just making one up. Then of these five hiring managers, we see that the 12-month potential attrition rate is let's say between 9 and 12%. But there's this one manager where their 12-month attrition rate is forecasted to be 35%. What's going on there?

Peter: Right. What's happening with that manager?

Michael: Exactly. So you can drill down and you can say, hey we found that based on the data that we have, it looks like potentially there are some people at risk and you talk to the manager and they go, yeah I know, I have people that are leaving and they're complaining. You immediately go bad manager, but then you do some interviews and you realize that they started doing construction and all the people that basically work in that one manager's department happen to live in a certain area, and now it became a 3-hour commute. So it has nothing to do with the manager but there is an external event that happened.

So we can deliver that content, that information including maps and location. It's amazing. And you can basically say, okay let's go in and let's put a new policy in place for this whole organization to say, look you can come in wherever you want as long as you work your 8-hour day or you could work from home.

Peter: Right.

Michael: And then here are the things in that, and you can put in a program in place and you could almost watch within 60 days of the target 12-month rate of attrition goes from 35% down to 15%.

Peter: There was a really interesting op-ed piece in last weekend's New York Times titled "Why You Hate Work" and this was done by The Energy Project. According to a 2013 report by Gallup, around the world across 142 countries, the proportion of employees who feel engaged at work is just 13%.

Michael: Crazy.

Peter: 13%. I mean who's paying attention to this stuff?

Michael: Fast forward to today where I would say, conservatively there's probably less than 10% of the information about an individual that sits inside the company. And 90+ percent of that information sits outside the company, in the person's digital footprint.

It's important for HR organizations to understand more information about the individual for how to engage them and retain them. This is sort of common sense, and if you think about up until now - so I'm kind of a bit of a dinosaur in this space, but up until now, what real tools has HR been able to deploy to help with retention?

Tool number 1: President's Club.

Tool number 2: watches.

Tool number 3: cars.

Tool number 4: pay raises. I mean I'm kind of joking but I'm really not.

Peter: How about the Employee of the Month plaque?

Michael: Yeah. They don't really have any insights. It's amazing because when good people leave, it's always a shock. Oh my god, I can't believe Missy left.

Peter: Yeah. And not only that, the replacement cost is astronomical.

Michael: It's huge. If you just Google attrition, what it costs companies, there's a ton of research. Let's say even if you look at median research, it's 27 to 49% of the person's salary and that's hard cost.

Peter: Right.

Michael: DDI and they're on the front end of it with the assessments, so they have a pretty good feel for it. But DDI basically estimates that on an average, it costs a company around $27 million a year for attrition. Those are just hard dollars. How about all the IP that's walking out the door?

Peter: Exactly.

Michael: Let's say that you can't completely eliminate it, but if you could chop down a few of the trees in the forest, you begin to start making progress. Because what I found that was interesting within an organization is that there tends to be a herd mentality. You don't necessarily get one or two people to go and everybody stays. It's one goes, then two goes, then four go, then 8 go, then 16 go, then 32 go. That's how it is.

Peter: Yeah because they get recruited into that company that that person went to who left.

Michael: That's exactly right. If you look at attrition curves within an organization, they tend to be exponential. They don't tend to be linear. That's just an interesting phenomena because what happens is once people start going, more people want to go. It's a herd mentality.

So the key is to get insights and analytics into the hands of HR people so they understand what's happening with sort of the mindset of the current employees, and to begin to chop away at some of the possible attrition, which could actually eliminate potential future attrition and hopefully increase the level of engagement of their current employees. That's the thesis, anyway Peter.

Peter: Interesting. I have one final question for you and this has being ripped off from one of the webinars on your website that you participated in. Actually, I have put the YouTube code on your show page here on TotalPicture Radio so people can look at it.

Michael: Thank you. I appreciate it.

Peter: What challenges is Joberate focusing on solving in the near term and in the long term?

Michael: In the short term or in the near term as you say, we're really working on developing - this is going to sound kind of funny - but we're really working on developing what I would call intuitive user interfaces. And to understand why we're kind of focusing on that for now is just kind of understanding that essentially what we've introduced is we've introduced a car 300 years ago. How do you explain it to someone? It just becomes very difficult, right? So you have to show it.

The business model that we have and that we talked about the iTalent Competition is we're basically the information services company, somewhat like a Reuters or a Dun & Bradstreet or an Equifax where we provide the streams of predictive analytics to companies. But what we've also learned that this is also sort of paradigm shifting that people kind of have a hard time getting their arms around it.

So in the short term, we're focusing on developing some proprietary user interfaces that could really train and educate people on how to use the information. We think that that's a lot of value because as they say, a picture's worth a thousand words.

So you'll see that let's say from now until the fall, we're going to come out with kind of a rapid-fire fashion some UX/UI interfaces towards a predictive analysis engine. People can start using dynamic HTML to really understand and drill down on the information. So that's kind of the short term.

In the long term, we want to move towards really providing a workforce planning exchange. What's interesting is by design, a predictive analytics engine has anonymity. And so we think that we can really provide value to companies long term because we could essentially allow companies to benchmark with pure anonymity. Because you could say, I'm in financial services and we have 200 other financial services clients; they don't know who they are. But they know that for a financial services company, here's my target rate of attrition or here's my target rate of retention.

So I think ultimately long term, I think we could really help companies with succession planning, workforce planning or planning in general. You want to open up facilities in a new area, how do you know what the new market is in that area of your talent, stuff like that.

I think that short term, it's a bit lock and tackle. Let's get these user interfaces out there that people can understand so they could really know how to learn the product. But long term, it's really doing workforce planning and benchmark based on the predictive analytics data, and I think there's just a lot of value in that.

Peter: Michael, it's really been a pleasure having you on TotalPicture Radio today. I much enjoyed this conversation.

Michael: Yeah, myself also. Thank you for having me, Peter. I really appreciate it.

Michael Beygelman is the CEO of Joberate and you will find this interview in the HR Technology Channel of TotalPicture Radio. That's


The Edges in Recruiting Systems Move to the Center


A conversation with the HR Tech analyst and thought-leader Bill Kutik

Published on June 03 2014
Bill Kutik - HR Executive Online columnist -TotalPicture Radio interviewBill Kutik

"Sorry to repeat myself: But you know the day of the applicant tracking system (ATS) is so over!" Bill Kutik

Here's Bill Kutik's headline that got my attention: "The next era of recruiting automation is arriving. 'Edge application' functionality is no longer hanging off old applicant-tracking systems, but is slowly being moved to the center by at least three major vendors. Workday, Cornerstone OnDemand and Ultimate have all recently announced new recruiting systems or the latest version of a young one."

Welcome to a HR Technology Channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio. I'm Peter Clayton - and joining me today is HR Technology Columnist, and leading independent industry analyst - who's been following recruiting automation since it began in 1988 - Bill Kutik co-chair emeritus of the 17th Annual HR Technology® Conference & Exposition, returning to Las Vegas, Oct. 8-10, 2014.  Bill is host of The Bill Kutik Radio Show - and if you're listening to this, I'm sure you are subscribed to his bi-weekly podcast - unedited and unrehearsed conversations with HR Thought-leaders.

Watch the video version of this interview

Questions Peter Clayton asks Bill Kutik in this interview:

In a recent HR Executive column titled Three New Recruiting Systems - the Edges Move More to the Center You start your article by stating.. "Sorry to repeat myself: But you know the day of the applicant tracking system (ATS) is so over!" Yet every company I know is chained to an ATS - not to say the recruiters like them - they don't - so please explain yourself.

I've thought of the legacy ATSs - Taleo, Kenexa, SuccessFactors - as VCRs and the new generation of ATSs - iCIMS for instance, as Apps. Is that a fair assessment?

Your article highlights three companies Workday, Cornerstone OnDemand and Ultimate all who've recently come out with brand new recruiting systems or the latest version of a young one: all built from the ground up. So tell us what's happening.

In your article , you quote Workday's VP of Product Management "Recruiting is a team sport, which currently has a lack of collaboration or connection to other apps and an ATS designed only for compliance and recruiters," hasn't this been the problem all along - none of the systems play nice with others? In addition to terrible UXs.

There is also a trend for these companies to partner with services like job-board posting and aggregation, background checking and video interviewing. BrassRing, for instance recently did a deal with LinkedIn.

In your article you mentioned that Workday has a "special relationship" with LinkedIn and that "LinkedIn is the single most important resource in salaried recruiting today" can you expand on this for us?

So let's expand all of this out to October - what are you expecting to see this year, and what will we be talking about at HR Technology® Conference & Expo at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas?

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