Talent Acquisition Interviews
Leela Srinivasan Group Marketing Manager, Linkedin Talent Solutions, and Rob Humphrey Strategic Initiatives Leader share LinkedIn research at #MREC13
Is mobile recruitment living up to the hype?
What do potential candidates really want and need from mobile interaction with companies, and what does that mean for recruiters?
Recorded at the Mobile Recruiting Conference at the Georgia Tech Conference Center in Atlanta, GA, here is an excerpt of the morning keynote presentation, Turning the Tables on Mobile Recruitment: What Consumers Want, featuring Leela Srinivasan Group Marketing Manager, LinkedIn Talent Solutions and Rob Humphrey Strategic Initiatives Leader, LinkedIn. (Be sure to check out the SlideShare link for Leela and Rob's presentation deck.)
Leela heads up content marketing, social media marketing and conferences for LinkedIn's Talent Solutions business, including the highly influential Talent Connect Conference, coming soon to Las Vegas.
Rob speaks frequently on talent solutions innovation, college to career transitions, consumer marketing, and generation next. A fan or street art, backcountry snowboarding, and things internet Rob has a unique and engaging presentation style focused on straight talk and original thinking on the future of talent, marketing, and social selling.
"33% of monthly visitors to LinkedIn come through mobile devices. That's up from 21% last year... Over 90 LinkedIn profiles are viewed per second from a mobile device."
Watch the Video:
When you deconstruct LinkedIn from a computer scientist's perspective, interesting things appear.
So here's a nuts and bolts Talent Acquisition Channel podcast that will help every recruiter get more out of LinkedIn. Not a recruiter? No problem. Assuming you use LinkedIn (and OF COURSE you do if you are reading this), you too will learn how to make more effective use of the de facto career tool for finding and being found. For most of us, using LinkedIn is like falling down the rabbit hole and having lunch with the characters in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. If you read Josef's book, you'll be the one grinning.
Our good friend and frequent contributor to TotalPicture Radio, David Perry @roguerecruiter author of the Guerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters series introduced me to my guest on this podcast. A recruiter in Prague, (yes, folks, that's the capital of the Czech Republic), Josef Kadlec, and to his new book People as Merchandise: Crack the Code to LinkedIn Recruitment. (See the link in the sidebar). With a title like that, I was obviously intrigued.
People as Merchandise? Really? Think about it for a minute. Aren't we all "merchandise" on Facebook, on Twitter, on Pinterest, on YouTube, and on LinkedIn? Collectively, we are the currency that has made Mark Zuckerberg and Ried Hoffman and many other social network visionaries -- billionaires.
As you'll hear in this interview Josef is not slick -- but he is really smart. And, although he's a recruiter, he started his career as a software engineer. So, he approached LinkedIn not from a headhunter's perspective, but from a coder's mentality: How can I hack this thing to create shortcuts and find the people I'm looking for? Then, how can I connect with these people outside of LinkedIn's walled garden?
No snow days: Entrepreneur, recruiter, sourcer Karen Russo moved her business from Stamford, Connecticut to Playa del Carmen, Mexico.
Over six million Americans have jobs that depend on US-Mexico trade. Karen Russo talks candidly about business opportunities in Mexico, Brazil, and throughout Latin America.
Welcome to a special Talent Acquisition Channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio with Peter Clayton reporting. International Executive Research & Search -- IIPE -- is an international search and candidate research firm based in Playa del Carmen Mexico. Joining me today is Karen Russo, president of IIPE. Karen is a member of the Pinnacle Society, the nation's premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry.
Karen Russo - TotalPicture Radio Transcript
Welcome to a special Talent Acquisition Channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton reporting. Internationally Executive Research & Search IIPE, which is iipe.net, is an international search and candidate research firm based in Playa del Carmen, Mexico. Joining me today is Karen Russo, president of IIPE. Karen is a member of the Pinnacle Society, the nation's premier consortium of top recruiters within the direct placement and search industry.
Karen, welcome back to TotalPicture Radio. It's been a long time. When I first met you, you were running a successful executive search firm based in Stamford, Connecticut. Tell us about your evolution and decision to focus on sourcing, research and list building.
Karen: IIPE stands for Investigaciones Internacionales de Personal Ejecutivo. We call it IIPE for short for a lot of really good reasons. I migrated into the research industry because I saw that there was a need for clients to want a different methodology around search. There was just a lot of talk within corporate human resources departments about non-traditional methodologies or building search firm practices within their human resources organizations. At that time, the economy was starting to kind of fall down a little bit on us. Things were starting to slide downhill. I started the business in 2007 and while 2007 was a record year for us, we did almost $3 million in executive search that year, I still felt like clients were missing something; there was something more that they wanted.
So we started the research business to offer them an alternative service to either complement their in-house recruiting efforts or to complement maybe other search professionals while they're out looking for talent and finding top talent. I saw the need and I saw that clients were ready for something a little bit non-traditional, a little different.
Peter: So why move your business to Mexico?
Karen: Selfishly, I like living on the Caribbean.
Peter: That ain't bad.
Karen: It's really been a great thing. I actually was thinking on the way over here, why do we have such a successful operation, and I have to think that the people that work with me all have migrated there as well, and they love living there. So we are so happy that we like what we do every day. We go to work in a place that we love every day. I think happy people are happy employees and productive employees; not that everybody should move their business to the beach, but we really have a great culture at IIPE, a very focused and fun culture.
Peter: Tell us a little bit about your staff, Karen. I'm assuming they all speak English.
Karen: They do. Most of them speak more languages than me. I'm on my second, having now become fluent in Spanish. I studied Italian for several years. Most of my employees speak at least two languages. They're college-degreed and I have a couple of people that are studying other languages right now because language is very important to us.
We do have certain technology that assists us with other languages. We do some backend work with certain technologies in different countries like Japan, China and actually Portugal and Germany. We have some backend technology that helps us and assists us to do searches in other languages when we're doing Boolean search strings, for example. Most of the people there are at least bilingual.
The other really cool thing about them is I try to find people who are naturally curious, focused on getting results but not happy with the only result. You have to have an inherent nature to be super curious and not happy with one answer because in sourcing, if you're happy with one answer, then you really have only kind of peeled only one layer of that onion and there's so many layers when you're doing sourcing, to different ways to search for things that you have to ask yourself the same question many different ways. So divergent thinking is a key critical requirement in somebody's make-up.
Peter: Explain to the audience - not everyone who listens to this show is in the recruiting industry - what is the difference between sourcing and recruiting?
Karen: I've been in the business over 20 years and when we started in the recruiting industry, you were given a book and you looked up a bunch of phone numbers and there were people's names in this book. It could have been anything from a Yellow Pages or to a directory or where you literally went into a company, into a corporate headquarters and wrote down the name of the company and then just started to call.
So that was the pre-stages of doing recruiting because you were then putting together prospects. So the prospect part, the gathering the data, the list building of the names of the people that you need to then recruit is the frontend of the recruiting process. Years ago, we've kind of put all of that into one person and many companies have different business models. Some of those models are they have business development people and then they have their recruiters. Some companies have full-service where everybody does everything. My search firm in the United States was a full-service firm, still is a full-service firm. But now you have to kind of break out the sourcing element because sourcing is a totally different animal than it was. With the internet, with blogs, with data, with news feeds, with the amount of information that's coming at people, there's so many different sources to find information about people that a recruiter would spend all of their time sourcing and looking for those impossible names. As I said, kind of going back to that divergent thinking, not being happy with all of the answers to the question of who is my best target. In sourcing, you need to ask yourself those things. So there's so many different sources that you use.
So a recruiter is a person, in my mind, who makes the phone call, has the pitch, knows what needs to be said to hook a prospective candidate into a process, somebody who's maybe not that happy in their current opportunity or in their company or feeling stagnant. So that's the person who has to have the right kind of dialogue. They have to be creative. They have to think on their feet and they're more on the communications side of things.
Where sourcing has kind of evolved and it's sort of separated out, the recruitment process where sourcing is now a little bit more technical and analytical in nature and very thoughtful, you have to ask yourself lots of questions about who is that target audience that I want to pitch to, and who is that person, and where am I going to find them is the other big question. There are so many venues. We used to go to all these business meetings and conferences and now where do we find people? We find people on social media and not just on social media, but on blogs and on webcasts and on podcasts and all over the place.
So you have to know where to target the intelligence, where to go for that data and where to find those people and social media obviously is a big source.
Peter: Speaking about social media, Karen, let's talk a little bit about LinkedIn and how successful LinkedIn has become at helping recruiters locate passive candidates. What capabilities or advantages does IIPE offer beyond what a recruiter can accomplish using the LinkedIn Enterprise account?
Karen: LinkedIn is only one source and of course they won't like that I will say that they are not the magic bullet. There is no one magic bullet to finding people because social media is vast. The interesting thing about LinkedIn Recruiters is it is a useful tool and it is helpful. It does carry people through a process. Connections are still connections and you still, at the end of the day, no matter what your data shows up, in LinkedIn Recruiter, you still need to go out and validate the data, make sure that that person who says they're at this particular company on their LinkedIn account is on that LinkedIn account. Many people close their profiles down on LinkedIn because they're starting to get wise and don't really want to be contacted.
The other thing is then you have to go out and find them, you have to actually make the phone call. Where are they? What's their phone number? What's their direct dial? What's their email? Sometimes their email is already on there.
The difference between LinkedIn and using an outsourced research firm like IIPE is that that's only one source. When we go in and develop a Boolean string, we are developing a string that goes out and sources a vast network on the internet, associations, memberships, conferences, other forms of social media. Wherever somebody might exist on the internet is where we're finding our data. So LinkedIn is only one source. So it's only one place to find competitive talent intelligence.
Really, Google is the better venue but you have to be well-trained to use Google. In order to use Google, you have to be well-trained in developing your strings and targeting your strings for either competitive intelligence against the competitive companies that you want to develop target data against or against the specific candidate.
Peter: There are a number of companies stateside that offer pretty much the same kinds of services that your company does, research, name generation of qualified candidates, sourcing. What is your differentiator, Karen? Why would I call a company in Playa del Carmen to help me find an electrical engineer in Minneapolis?
Karen: First, there are companies all over the world that do what we do. Some of them are $10/hour and some of them are $120/hour. So the US-based firms tend to be more expensive than we are. We are typically 60% less expensive than an American-based research firm. But yet we're not the $10 search firm.
Our data is 100% validated upon delivery. So we would rather provide our clients with 50 or 100 good qualified names that are well-targeted, that when you pick up the phone, you are getting that person on the phone and they do what you're looking for them to do; than to give you 500 or 1,000 names and your recruiter spends the entire day calling and not finding people on the other end of the phone. In fact, we are hired by companies who buy large lists, voluminous lists that are not well-validated and we actually do data scrubbing for them and clean up that data. So we're really good at finding people, finding where people last existed and where they might be.
So one of the key differentiators, aside from the fact that we're not as expensive as the US but not as low-cost as some of those other firms that don't provide...
Peter: The ones in India that...
Karen: Yeah, they don't provide validated data. We provide 100% validated data.
Peter: Which is huge because anybody who has ever bought a list knows that unless it's really well-scrubbed, the data becomes obsolete in weeks, right?
Karen: In weeks, in days sometimes depending on the person. The biggest thing is that as a recruiter myself and having spent hours and hours doing recruiting myself, getting a list either buying it from a firm when I had my own company or having my researchers prepare a list for me or just doing it myself, it's demotivating for anybody who has to call and sell an opportunity and be excited about it, to call 15/20/30 people on the list and not get the person that they're looking for. Then it creates distraction and a lack of focus. And how do I know this?
Karen: Because I'm a recruiter.
Peter: If John no longer works there, do you know where perhaps he went to work? So now you start going down those rabbit holes.
Karen: Exactly. The other thing, going back to LinkedIn, LinkedIn is a huge distraction too, even for recruiters, because if recruiters are working on multiple assignments, they'll be on LinkedIn Recruiter and I'm guilty of this myself. You'll be in Recruiter, you'll be looking at LinkedIn and you'll find this person, but this person is connected to that person. You really need to talk to that person too for something else that you're working on.
When you're working with a sourcing firm, the sourcing firm is targeted to your specific project. That's where all of their attention and their focus is on. So if they're working on 35, 40, 50 or 60 hours for you on that project, that's your project and that's where all their time is dedicated too.
I find having had experience and having a recruiting firm for 17 years, I see where people have gotten distracted over the years. I would want to hope that I learned by my mistakes and the mistakes of other people by developing a firm that really stays very focused because internet research can - people lose their focus very easily.
Peter: I read on your blog that over 6 million Americans have jobs that depend on US-Mexico trade. So let's talk a little bit about business opportunities in Mexico and throughout Latin America. You look at what's going on in Brazil, it's a huge developing economy.
Karen: Brazil's wild. It's super busy. It's an incredibly competitive marketplace. My clients really struggle to keep talent. There are definitely retention issues going on there. Human resources has to work really hard on retention strategies there right now. It's just a growing and thriving economy. It's one of the fastest growing economies in the world. In fact, Mexico and Brazil are growing 2 to 3 times faster than the United States even now. I don't know, the GDP is, for Mexico for example, the net change is like 5%, almost 6% where in the US it's only 2 or 3% change.
I think that there's a lot of business out there. I have many, many clients moving. There's obviously manufacturing facilities, information centers, technical and call centers that are going out to Latin America so you have a lot of those populations moving out there for cost containment. But there are a lot of companies that are just going out there because they're building business there. I have tons of banks contacting me right now who are opening up in other countries, Chile, Peru, Colombia, Argentina. Actually, one of my researchers works in Argentina right now. We have him based down there just to kind of have our Latin American presence established and the rest of us are in Mexico.
Peter: Let's take this a step further, Karen. For companies who are expanding into Latin American markets, what are some of the legal or cultural hurdles that they need to be aware of?
Karen: I just developed a strategic relationship with Global Benefits Associates. They're here in Westport actually, with Terry and Mary Cortesi. It's interesting. I rely on Mary quite often. I've known her for a very long time. In fact, I placed her many years ago. I rely on Mary very often to provide me with competitive data in a particular market.
In Latin America - now Global Benefits Associates, they only work in global emerging countries and they have a wealth of information on the legal policies around labor law, the union policies that are required within certain industries in different countries and also the compensation and remuneration packages that exist in these different countries. The requirements are pretty interesting, very, very different from the United States. In fact, the United States is the only country that doesn't require companies to - they don't mandate a vacation policy. We're the only country - I think Japan also - but in every other country, vacation is part of your benefit package.
So just as that as an example, when I started my business in Mexico, I was super challenged in learning those laws and labor policies to make sure that I on-boarded my employees appropriately through the right contracts, severance agreements, remuneration packages, standard benefit programs and of course vacation policies. So I think that many companies are unaware of that and they do struggle with the on-boarding process and knowing how to pull all of those things together and having local people down there to help facilitate that process and help work through those issues. I actually do have many partners in different parts of the Latin American countries as well as in Mexico and Central America to assist me on that.
We have right now, three different strategic relationships with firms that help us when our clients need on-boarding and of course I know Mexican policy, but I don't write labor law.
Peter: I have a question for you. Given your background and all of your experience in recruiting, why not operate as an RPO or a recruitment process outsourcer?
Karen: I've always been a boutique provider. I don't know, maybe that's the big machine thing that I scare away from. I shy away from the big machine thing. Who knows where IIPE is going to go. I think by the end of this year, it's very possible we'll be up to 10 recruiters. We're about to sign a very large contract with a pretty big company in the search industry, so we will need more resources to accommodate that. I think I like the idea of employing strategic partnerships with people who are really experts in their field, like a remuneration expert in Brazil or search professional in Brazil in a certain industry, or remuneration experts across different countries.
I also like working with boutique firms and other entrepreneurs in the search industry to help strategize with them about their projects and their search initiatives. Very often, we're strategizing together when we're building out a project. I'd like to think that with my years of experience in the recruiting industry and running a practice as well as the fact that I am a Pinnacle member and considered one of the top recruiters in the country, I really would hope that my clients would look to rely on me to help them to strategize when they're perplexed over the way something might be going in a search. So I find that a lot of fun.
Peter: Just a couple more questions for you, Karen. You had mentioned to me that you're working with a company called Next Level Exchange on a series of training videos for recruiters. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Karen: Yes. Next Level Exchange is a company that was started by Jeff Kaye. Jeff Kaye is the owner of Kaye/Bassman in Dallas, Texas and they're one of the top 10 search firms in the country right now. He put together this company with an amazing team of professionals, Karen, Daryl, just an amazing group of people, that have put together training foundational videos on how to be a successful recruiter, how to on-board a new recruiter, new hires. It really walks any new owner, any business owner who wants to on-board new people through a recruiting - how to teach them how to be a recruiter because very often, we're working desk (21:36) people. But it also has not only foundational training but advanced level training and different tiers for owners and managers. I just did one on embracing change, so really more for somebody who's already an owner. They really are trying to help the industry be a best practice firm, be a best practice organization, be a best practice industry in the recruiting industry and really helping people to understand and work with integrity and ethics and just best practices.
I think their program is wonderful. I have my new recruiters - I have two people that I'm training and recruiting right now in Mexico. They are using the program and it's really been helpful. I just think it's really more for best practices and I think anybody, if you have an in-house search team or external search team, I think anybody could benefit by listening to their videos.
Peter: What haven't we discussed that you'd like to share with the audience today?
Karen: I think that when you're doing sourcing and a lot of people have a lot of questions about sourcing and am I doing it correctly and am I using the right tools. I do think that there's aspects of it that's a work in progress, but I think sourcing - it's great to have a great list and it's great to have a big list. If you can get a big, great list that's even better, but it has to be a well-targeted list. I think that where companies fall short in analyzing who to work with or if they should be internalizing their function is being able to know if they're analyzing the profiles so that they're targeting the names that are going on that list specifically. That's something that really needs a heavy and well-trained eye to do and really somebody who's pretty good with not only Boolean search strings but analyzing backgrounds and profiles.
So it is a work in progress and it does require a lot of training. I know we've spent a lot of money on our training of our employees and we continue to do so. I encourage people that are going to have their own search, research departments or sourcing teams that they really maintain an environment of continuous learning for them or they won't be successful.
Peter: Great. Karen, thank you so much for taking the time this week with us today on TotalPicture Radio. It's really been great to see you again here at Westport.
Karen: Great to see you.
Market Adoption for Video Interviewing in the Hiring Process Has Arrived
"74% of the recruiters surveyed felt video interviewing would make their job easier. The number was even higher for hiring managers." Sarah White
Today, our show focuses on the adoption of video interviewing in the recruiting process. According to Video Interviewing Market Trends 2013 Whitepaper published this year by Sarah White Associates, "...38% of companies that responded to our 2012 Video Interviewing Usage Survey had used some form of video in the hiring process. That may have been one of the 30+ video interviewing platforms or a free service such as Skype or Google. Regardless of how it happens, video is no longer a far-flung idea - it's a reality for more than 1/3 of organizations out there."
This is Peter Clayton reporting. Welcome to a special Talent Acquisition Channel Podcast and Vodcast (yes there's a video version of this interview - with Sarah White, founder of Sarah White Associates). Sarah is interviewed by Mark Finn, CEO of TalentBox. You'll find the links to the video interview on the sidebar, along with links to her report and SlideShare presentation.
Mark's interview with Sarah was recorded at the Candidate Experience Awards wine-tasting reception during the ERE Recruiting Conference and Expo in San Diego.
Keith Hadley, Practice Leader, Employment Branding at CareerBuilder, Describes the New Normal. His Research May Surprise You.
The New Job Hunt: 74% of all employees are either actively searching for a new job or are open to new opportunities.
Even if you have the luxury of hiring from an enormous candidate pool, that pool may only run so deep. Finding qualified candidates with the skills necessary to drive your business is more challenging than ever. If your job is filling those positions, this is no surprise to you. If you're a hiring manager, pay close attention. Here's the headline: Any organization that wants to maintain its competitive edge must invest in building a brand that attracts top talent. The operative word here is 'invest.'
Welcome to a Talent Acquisition podcast on TotalPicture Radio, with Peter Clayton reporting. Joining me from Chicago is Keith Hadley, Practice Leader, Employment Branding at CareerBuilder. I met Keith this month at the Employer Branding Conference (produced by Universum), in New York. Keith's data may shock, alarm, or validate your suspicions... (especially if you're a recruiter).
Welcome to the new normal, where "nearly seven in ten workers search for new opportunites on a routine basis."
In this podcast, Keith describes the undeniable connection between internal and external brand strength.
Keith Hadley practice leader, employment branding, CareerBuilder, TotalPicture Radio Transcript
Today's Talent Acquisition Channel Podcast here on TotalPicture Radio featuring Keith Hadley, practice leader, employment branding at CareerBuilder, is brought to you by our sister media company JobsinPods.com, the only podcast where real employers, leading recruiters and staffing agencies talk about their jobs and tell you how to get them. Jobsinpods.com offers employment branding, employee recognition and job advertising all in one. Visit jobsinpods.com and have a listen to our jobcast with real employees at companies as diverse as GE, GEICO and Intel. Jobsinpods.com - the cleverest way to advertise your jobs.
Even if you have the luxury of hiring from an enormous candidate pool, that pool may only run so deep. Finding qualified candidates with the skills necessary to drive your business is more challenging than ever. If your job is filling these positions this is no surprise to you. If you're a hiring manager pay close attention. Here's the headline: any organization that wants to maintain its competitive edge must invest in building a brand that attracts top talent. The operative word here is invest.
Welcome to a special Talent Acquisition podcast on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton reporting. Joining me from Chicago is Keith Hadley, practice leader, employment branding at CareerBuilder. I met Keith this month at the Employer Branding Conference produced by Universum in New York City. His presentation at the conference was titled Measuring the Strength of Your Employment Brand and his numbers may shock, alarm or validate your suspicions, especially if you are a recruiter. Welcome to the new normal where nearly 7 in 10 workers search for new opportunities on a routine basis.
Keith, welcome to TotalPicture Radio.
Keith: Thank you so much, Peter. It's a pleasure to be here.
Peter: In your presentation in New York you put up a slide called the new job hunt where you talked about the statistics about how people are today viewing their jobs and are out there actively... I mean there really is no such thing as a full time employee anymore from the standpoint of how people view work.
Keith: Absolutely. If you think about the way the digital age has created a situation for consumers where we are always on, we're always looking, we're always open to new products, new services; we just simply have so many more resources, and the same is true on the job hunt.
We did a study recently using an outside group. It wasn't a study of CareerBuilder users but it was a study of full time employed individuals in the US and Canada and what we found was that 74% of full time employed workers said that they were either open to or looking for new opportunities. In fact, 69% said that job search was part of their regular routine. That's incredible when you think about that new normal. It's the age of the candidate consumers, the job consumers as one of the participants in my session asked me about and I think we're there.
Peter: Give us some context to your numbers, Keith. What's the sampling? What's your reach at CareerBuilder when you go out and do these studies?
Keith: There's two types of studies that we do. We do studies of just the general population and for those studies we typically will have sample sizes of anywhere from 1000-4000 and depending on what particular target audience that we're looking for.
For example, we recently did a healthcare study or a study on salespeople. But then beyond that at CareerBuilder we do a lot of custom studies directly for clients and if you think about CareerBuilder just by the numbers here there's roughly 308 million people in the US, 157 million would be eligible working adults and CareerBuilder alone has access to over 133 million of those people. In fact, we have over 140 million worker profiles; 23 million people are actively looking at our site every month. It's 1 in 5, 1 in 6 are on our site looking for jobs.
Some other numbers here are just astounding. Every single month in the US there are over 800 million job searches conducted. Now 300 million of those are conducted on Google - people going into Google and typing in some kind of a job search. On CareerBuilder alone there's 270 million job searches every month. So this is an active, active environment that we're in with people looking for new opportunities.
Peter: I want to return to what you were talking about a little bit earlier. You had mentioned that there really is no unemployment when it comes to nurses and engineers. According to your research, what are some of the other positions that are especially hard to fill today?
Keith: There's a number that we track constantly. Some of the ones that are of particular interest to me are truck drivers. Transportation companies, large consumer package good companies, UPS, Fed Ex, post office, anybody moving things around the country are finding it increasingly difficult to find truck drivers. To me that's an optimistic sign. That means that we have raw materials and finished products being shipped from place to place in this country, so that's a good sign for the economy.
Keith: The other category that we study is sales, especially the higher level outside enterprise level salespeople or sales engineers. It's increasingly difficult to find top salespeople and we have the numbers to show how tough that is. But again that's an optimistic sign because if companies are hiring salespeople, that means that they're optimistic about growing their market share and seeing their business thrive.
Manufacturers are finding it increasingly difficult especially in the skilled positions - CNC machinists for example, tool and dye makers. It's very difficult to find welders - it's almost impossible to find. And then there's the ones that you would expect - information technology, especially the narrow skills within IT, a java developer for example, and then there's the entire field of healthcare - doctors, nurses, nurse practitioners, therapists, occupational therapists, physical therapists - all extremely tight labor fields.
Peter: It is sort of surprising some of these skilled trades you would think that some of these high school grads would be going to trade school and learning how to be welders or electricians.
Keith: Yeah exactly. In fact, one of the discussions that we get into quite often is how do we help entire industries brand themselves. I was in a manufacturing group recently that talked about how challenging it is exactly to your point to go into high schools and convince high school students that there are some really exciting jobs in manufacturing. Manufacturing today is 90% brains and 10% brawn. So there are exciting technology opportunities within manufacturing organizations.
One company we're working with in the south is partnering with local high schools to get kids interested in fields like CNC machining and welding because they can make great money, they can have a stable profession and yet many kids just don't see that as a very attractive option for them.
Peter: Yeah and you're right, these are great paying jobs. Somebody that's a welder is making really good money.
Keith: Oh yeah. In fact some of the welders for this client that we have are making over $100,000. What are diesel mechanics and welders making up in South Dakota in the oil field region. They're incredibly in demand.
Peter: I've been to a number of conferences this year already, including the Universum conference and I was at ERE Spring out in San Diego and IACPR and Recruiting Trends, and we keep hearing that a great employment brand is a competitive advantage at these conferences. Do you have any numbers to back this up, Keith?
Keith: I do. There's some really exciting numbers. But I think it was 2009 or 10 Gartner came out with some really interesting research that they had done on the amount of reach that a company has that is listed in say the best places to work like Fortune Magazine or in other reputable sources. What they found by the numbers is that a company with a strong recognized employment brand has access to two-thirds of their total talent pool versus a company that doesn't have a strong brand or is an unknown brand has access to say less than one-third.
It makes sense. If you're Google what's the reach that you have among IT talent? It's a far greater reach than a company that might be a small IT consultancy that has no recognized consumer brand. What we found in CareerBuilder in some of our studies is we found 70% of people responded that they would accept a lower salary to work for a company with a strong employment brand. So we can quantify that very quickly.
There was a fascinating study just this month that came out in Harvard Business Review, it was an MIT Sloan Management review and it was a study of the impact of a corporate brand on recruitment. For example, one statistic that jumped out at me in that report is when recruiting MBA graduates your brand is worth what they calculated to be 16% of the total value of the contract. It's a fascinating study. You can read about their methodology and how they arrived there, but having a brand is giving you competitive advantage. There's no doubt about it.
Peter: Yeah that's really interesting. I spoke with Elliot Clark at SharedXpertise recently about this topic and on the other side of it if you don't have a good brand, you have to pay more for your employees and that is through the lifecycle, the lifetime of that employee. I mean there really is a lot of compelling evidence out there that it's important to have a good brand.
Keith: Peter, you're absolutely right and even our discussion now is very limited. What about when you start calculating what is the opportunity cost to say a delivery company that can't find a truck driver? Not only are you trying to pay overtime to your current drivers but you actually have to start turning down business because you simply don't have the people.
Or engineering projects, engineering firms if you think about the size of the value of the contracts that they're trying to fulfill on, if they don't have top engineering talent and they have to say no to business, what's the impact? The financial impact can be tremendous.
Peter: How does geography fit into this, Keith?
Keith: I think it plays a huge part and it plays a huge part in two different fronts. If you're in a geography that is considered a desirable geography, say you're in Chicago or New York, the good news is there's going to be a greater amount of talent available but you're also going to be competing with everybody else in that market.
On the other hand, if you're in a very small market, you have to have an incredibly strong brand presence to be attractive to talent to convince them to relocate to that part of the world.
One of the things CareerBuilder has is some really good data. We have an organization economic modeling specialist international (EMSI for short), and we can pull very specific data on how the availability of talent in a certain region right down to the zip code level.
I mentioned an organization we're working with down in Mobile, Alabama that makes ships and they need aluminum welders and they need them desperately. The availability of talent of aluminum welders in Mobile is very limited, so they have to draw welders from all across the US and they have really two jobs to do. One is to brand themselves as an employer of choice, and the second is to brand Mobile, Alabama as a great place to live and to raise a family and to have time on the beaches and Mardi Gras. They really have to sell Mobile as an opportunity. Now Mobile, Alabama is going to have more appeal to people from certain regions than other regions. So it might be a tough sell to get somebody from Silicon Valley or San Francisco to move to Mobile, but it might be much less of a tough sell to convince somebody from Chicago or Detroit in the middle of winter to come down to Mobile and enjoy some balmy afternoons. I think it plays a huge part.
One last element is willingness to relocate. The good news is that in our study 70% of those that we surveyed are open to relocation for the right opportunity. If you start looking at millennials 83% of millennials are open to relocate.
Peter: I think that makes sense, Keith, because the millennials aren't under water on their mortgages.
Keith: Right. Their roots aren't as deep.
Peter: When you look at the Gen Xers 50% of those folks are still underwater on their mortgages so they really can't move unless the company is willing to assist them.
Keith: Exactly, and we find too that the more in demand the talent is, the less open they are to moving. For example, I'm looking at a report right now computer programmers in greater Chicagoland area and I'm looking at the supply and demand. The demand is terrific. There is 9,000, almost 10,000 job postings right now for computer programmers in Chicago and the amount of talent maybe 20,000 total talent available workers. So 9,000 openings with 20,0000 current available workers and vast majority of them, 98% of them are currently employed.
Now when we look at computer programmers nationwide, 80% of them are unwilling to relocate. Geography plays a big role. If you're pulling talent from different parts of the country, you have to be willing to pay for it. You have to be willing to sweeten their deal to get them there and having a strong reputation as an employer helps to minimize their risk in choosing you as an employer.
Peter: Yeah, and I hope that the hiring managers who are listening to this understand the real difficulty today recruiters face in trying to bring top talent into their organization. It's not easy.
Keith: Yeah. I talked recently to a fellow here in Chicago who is trying to hire about 40 java developers, and he told me that they're not willing to pay relocation and they really only want to focus on Chicagoland area. Well it didn't take me long to pull the data on how many java developers there actually are in Chicagoland and how many of them are currently employed and he quickly saw that he had to expand his strategy as well as sweeten the deal.
Peter: One of your slides at the Employer Branding Conference really resonated with the recruiters in the room. It had to do with hiring metrics and you basically said pick two out of these three: quality of hire, time to fill and cost per hire. You can't have them all.
Keith: Right. You have to make tradeoffs. If you want to have the right amount of high quality talent you're going to have to make some investments. It does not come free. There's no shortcut to building a strong brand as well as executing a media strategy that's going to get your name out there in front of the people that it needs to be in front of, and that's really the only way that you can get the right number of high quality people.
Peter: One thing I'm really curious about is what kind of data do you use when you're measuring employment branding.
Keith: There's four pieces of data that we measure when we're evaluating what we call the strength of an employment brand. The four pieces of data lined up with really four different levels of interest that a person might have.
The first thing we look at is what's your level of awareness of your jobs with the total talent pool, and one leading indicator that we can look at is Google. How many people right now this month are searching for your company by name on Google. That's a great indicator of how much awareness and interest you have. Then if you compare that to how many people are searching for your company by name plus the word jobs or careers, you can see that there are some marked differences from company to company.
For example, if you look at how many people are looking for Apple jobs a month on Google; 132,000 searches for that term Apple jobs. Compare that to a very well known employer in the IT space CSC, a very large employer, 100,000 IT employees mostly doing government contract work; well they're only getting 5,000 searches for CSC jobs every month. So a difference between 132,000 and 5,000 - talk about brand advantage for a company like Apple. They have people coming to them. So their issue is selection, whereas CSC's issue is about attraction.
The second level in is to look at of the folks that are actively searching for jobs, say in CareerBuilder which is the largest job board in the US, are we getting more of those searches and generating more interest than the benchmark. So for hiring frontline food service workers, are we getting more clicks in our ads and application to our ads than other companies hiring frontline food service workers and so that's a way to gauge your brand advantage among qualified candidates. Or if there's certain initiatives that you have, like a diversity initiative, are we getting more diverse candidates than the others?
We have something called a recruitment performance portal where CareerBuilder serves up that data to their clients so they can see where they have advantage and where they are struggling.
The third level in is to look at applicants. Are we getting more applicants than our competitors as well as the applicants that we're getting why are they applying for us? What are their reasons? How do they perceive us in the marketplace and how would they rate their experience with us? In other words, our job is to take candidates and turn them into applicants but have our applicants turn into fans or engaged raving fans of our companies desperately want to work for us.
We see some alarming data in terms of how many candidates never hear anything back from organizations they apply to; 60% of candidates never hear anything back, and we can see right away how that effects the Net Promoter Score, for example. But we can also gauge reasons why applicants are attracted to a particular opportunity.
We worked with one large food service company on their brand and saw that the main reason people were applying for them in the past is just because of their location. Well location is a tough thing to brand upon because your location is your location and by the way, there's five other restaurants around your same location. After we did some branding work with them we really helped them nail down what their messaging was and put that messaging in their stores, on their career site, in their job postings and we saw that over time the top reason why candidates were applying was now because of their company culture. This organization had a rich company culture that was a real selling point. Measuring your brand advantage with applicants is the third level.
The final level is something that Glassdoor has done a tremendous job of getting out there and that is what are your own employees saying about you? Are your employees turning into brand ambassadors? Candidates today are very empowered. They can check you out on social media. They can read all about the reviews that your current and past employees are saying about you on places like Glassdoor or in Yelp if you're in the hospitality industry. Is your Glassdoor page compared to your competitor's giving you advantage or costing you advantage.
Those are the four levels that we measure to gauge, to give us some leading indicators of how our brand is performing.
Peter: Keith, I'm part of the Candidate Experience Award Committee this year and when I hear things like 60% of people who are applying for jobs on CareerBuilder don't even hear back from the employer, the résumé black hole is alive and well and I don't get it... I just don't understand why companies treat applicants that way, especially consumer brand companies.
Keith: It's crazy and you would think that well that's only true in say high volume positions like customer service but engineers - engineers that apply for jobs, 58% of them don't hear anything back. Nurses, 59% don't hear anything back. IT professionals, 56% don't ever hear anything back. I think it's partially technology and it's partially just a mindset shift.
Companies have to come to grips with the fact that they are no longer in the power positions. If they're going to grow and be successful they have to have top talent and they need to build a pool of top talent rather than just the old paradigm of saying well we have an opening, we had 10 applications and we selected one and the nine we just... why do we need to talk to them, we already have our candidate.
It's like no, you have one candidate that you're hiring today and nine potential future candidates; 40% of those who never heard anything back report that they have a worse opinion of the brand after that experience.
Listen to this Peter, what you just said about consumer brands is so true - 32% of applicants said that they were less likely to purchase a product from that company after they had that black hole experience and 78% talk about it. They talk about the fact that they applied to a job and they never heard anything back.
When you see how integrated consumer branding and employment branding are, these are the same people; your candidates are your consumers. There's just no excuse for not taking a different perspective on candidate relationship management.
Peter: Yeah absolutely. Again, I certainly hope that companies will invest the time and the resources to address this issue because the holy grail of recruiting out there, the passive candidate they're not jumping through any of these hoops to begin with so how do you attract them to your organization?
Keith: First of all, I always want to step back and explore well what do we mean by a passive candidate? With 74% of employed people saying that they're actively looking and open to new opportunities I think what we mean by passive candidate is that they're passive about us. They don't know about my company so they're passive. They're not looking for jobs with my company but of course that describes the vast majority of candidates.
Peter: Back to your comment about CSC, right, if only 5,000 people a month are searching for jobs at your company and you're a huge company with 100,000 employees you need to do something to really get your employment... you talked about this thing called... at the conference you used this term brand shine, and I think that's what we're really talking about here is that companies like CSC really need to do something to improve that brand shine so that they're on the radar screen of these "passive candidates."
Keith: I'm convinced, there are passive people but if you're truly not looking for a job, you're 100% content where you are, you're taking no steps to find new opportunities, you're either fully vested pensioner ready to retire or you're just more of a passive person. More people are open and looking and every now and then they kind of dip their toe in the water. So you're right, companies need to then be proactive in getting their name out there in front of people. How do you do that?
Well you need to understand where are the candidates. Our research shows that the average employed person is using 14.5 sources of information when evaluating a job opportunity. So we know that they're active on the job boards; 67% of candidates say they begin their search on a job board. We know they're active on Google search, 74% say they begin a job search in Google search. They're active talking to their friends, 68% say they use traditional networking, 54% say they use social media not to identify opportunities but to research companies they're interested in.
Thirty percent searches done on Google for jobs are done in the mobile device. On CareerBuilder it's 33%. Two years ago it was less than 5% and today it's 33% of searches on CareerBuilder are on a mobile device. For some of those professions I mentioned nurses, truck drivers, security guards it can be as high as 60% of job searches are done from a mobile device.
So how do we deal with the passive candidate? Well here's what you do. Simply you need to get your story out in front of them where they are. Where are they searching? What are the platforms they're using? We need to have an integrated media strategy that gets a story out there to the right place.
Secondly, what is that story? If the best that we can do is show them a career site that has a picture of our product or some stock photo of shiny happy people and when they read about our about us paragraph it starts with the words "Founded in 1970 by the Smith Brothers, Acne Corp is the largest supplier of widgets." I mean that's what 90% of career sites say. That's not a story that's going to attract people.
So what I like to think about is are you entertaining people? You look at your career site, what's the entertainment value of it and do you have your story out there where it needs to be told? If you're on Twitter are you tweeting regularly? Are you tweeting interesting stuff? If you're on Facebook, are you interacting with people? Are you on YouTube? Do you have a video of your last company picnic? That's what people want to see. Do you have an active managed branded presence everywhere where these folks are? We think of it in terms of a media strategy today more than a sourcing strategy. So we simply need to be where people are looking for information about us. That's how we get in front of a passive candidate.
Peter: Yeah and of course to your point there, Keith, of all of these professions that you were mentioning where there basically is no unemployed people, if they are kind of interested in seeing what opportunities are out there and they're at work, they're not going to use their work computer to do this; they're going to use their smart phone. Therefore, that shows why this tremendous growth in using mobile devices is so important to companies who are really trying to attract those passive candidates that are very, very hard to find and they've got to have a mobile strategy or they're just not going to find them.
Keith: Right and mobile strategy - nowadays the technology is there. A mobile strategy means that when you show up on a mobile device it shows up mobile optimized. You can use your thumbs to move quickly through an application process rather than a pinch and expand, a pinch and expand and just serving up your desktop experience through your mobile device.
When we build career sites for our clients they come out of the box mobile optimized so that it looks different. It's formatted different. It has the same branding, same messaging, same design concepts but it looks like it was made for mobile and that's what it means. One thing a lot of folks don't realize is that Google uses a different algorithm to optimize the search on a mobile platform. If you have a mobile optimized career site you actually will show up higher in a Google search performed on a mobile device.
Keith: It's another way of quickly boosting your SEO strategy.
Peter: What are the most important factors regarding employer branding. I kind of want to return to my introduction, what do companies need to invest and what are the priorities out there? What are you telling your clients?
Keith: I'm glad you use the word invest. What I would say is the intro you have to invest in building competitive advantage. This is not something you can sit back and idly do. You can't use the same budget categories that you used in 2005. You have to make some investments and the investment is in building up your competitive advantage.
Now I always fall back on three categories. The first level of investment is you need to build a strong brand story. Why should people come and work here? If you don't know the answer to that or if your answer is different depending on who you talk to, you don't have a strong concise brand message and that message needs to be built on insight. Too many companies build a brand message after just talking or surveying internally. You need to survey externally. What do your candidates want? How do they perceive you? Do you know what that is? Can you connect your story to what the priorities are of those java developers or of those nurses? So that's number one.
Secondly, you need to invest in a media strategy. We need to get out of our thinking of a sourcing strategy that I can get all of my candidates from this one source. The reality is people are using 15 sources of information on average, and so we need to get our story out there. It's like planting seeds; you need to cultivate the soil, throw the seeds everywhere and then on occasion you get to also pick up your spear and do some hunting because you need to find those companies using very proactive email campaigns or recruiter phone calls, sourcing screening type of calls.
The third investment is we need to invest in candidate relationship. Most ATSs don't cut it in terms of the ability to build the relationship with candidates. ATSs are primarily designed to make it easier on the recruiters to sift through résumés but they're not designed to make it easier on the candidate. CareerBuilder's talent network technology, for example, is something that is designed to make the experience easy, simple, trackable for the candidate. They can quickly join and leave their information; 75% of folks that join a talent network leave their résumés behind. We have all the information we need right at that point, and so then we can use that information to build long term relationships with candidates, staying in front of them, sending out reminders and updates on our jobs as they develop recognizing that it might be a year or two of investment in people before they're ready to make the move.
1: Strong brand message, 2: Fully integrated media strategy, 3: Candidate relationships.
Peter: Great. Keith, I really appreciate your time today here on TotalPicture Radio. I know CareerBuilder has a number of resources out there for both candidates and employers. What are some of the places you'd like to mention?
Keith: First of all, I want to direct people to our empoweringemployment.com website. We are just passionate about getting people back into the workplace, especially in areas where we do see high unemployment and especially helping companies find the talent they need in those really difficult to fill areas. So what we've done in the empowering employment is gathered a lot of stories, not just from CareerBuilder, but from our clients and other organizations that are doing really noble things to get America working again. That's one place I'd encourage you to visit, share with us your stories about how you are empowering employment.
If people have questions about this concept of building brand advantage, how does our brand look today, how does it compare, we have a site that you can go to. It's www.careerbuilder.com/brandadvantage, and if you give us some information there we'd be happy to pull a brand advantage report and get it right back out to your organization.
Peter: How do people connect with you, Keith?
Keith: Email me. I live on emails keith.hadley At careerbuilder DOT com and I'd be very happy to answer any questions and help out in any way that I can.
We've been speaking with Keith Hadley who is the practice leader Employment Branding at CareerBuilder. You'll find this interview in the Talent Acquisition Channel of TotalPicture Radio. That's totalpicture.com. You can subscribe to TotalPicture Radio and jobsinpods.com on iTunes, Stitcher Radio and Sound Cloud. Connect with TotalPicture Radio and jobsinpods on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube. Sign up for our newsletter on totalpicture.com. Call 203-293-7003 today or email info AT jobsinpods DOT com and mention TotalPicture Radio and we'll give you a 20% discount on your first jobsinpods jobcast. Jobs In Pods - the cleverest way to advertise your jobs.
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