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James Mapes, Imagine That

A Preview of Life's Coming Attractions

 James Mapes, Quantum Leap Thinking James Mapes

I’ve got this little trick, it’s called CVS to BVS and you say that 100 times twice a day, it takes about 2 minutes.  And what it starts to instill is an automatic little trigger than whenever you have an idea about the future, or an idea about doing something, you stop and say, “okay, how can I make it better?” James Mapes

According to James Mapes, "Success literally depends on how people use their imagination. Exceptional individuals in all walks of life have the capability to think creatively and open up new opportunities for innovation. These are the individuals who have mastered the skill of visualizing a dynamic and successful future and then creating what they envision with optimism and hope. Einstein's words have never ringed truer, 'Imagination is more important than knowledge. It is a preview of life's coming attractions.' "

Welcome to the second of a three part Leadership Channel Podcast on TotalPicture Radio with Peter Clayton Reporting. Joining me for this special series is James Mapes, the founder of Quantum Leap Thinking, creator of The Transformation Coach, best- selling author, highly acclaimed business speaker, consultant, seminar leader and personal excellence coach.

"What I’m saying is that if you understand how the mind works, there are specific tools that you can use with yourself, not only for motivation but for idea generation and also to ground ourselves in a real vision of where we want to move.  It’s the actual conscious creation that I’m talking about of a picture or an image because we will always move in the direction of how we think."

A leading authority on the psychology of "applied imagination," James tells us how success can be achieved by a clear understanding and application of the mind. He skillfully stretches people's perceptions to see new possibilities and experience how their own imagination works.


James Mapes: TotalPicture Radio Interview Transcript "Imagine That"


Success literally depends on how people use their imagination.  Exceptional individuals in all walks of life have the capability to think creatively and open up new opportunities for innovation. 

Welcome to a leadership channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio.  This is Peter Clayton reporting and joining us again today is James Mapes who is the founder of Quantum Leap Thinking and creator of the transformation coach and best seller author and highly acclaimed business speaker and consultant.  

The last time we spoke with James we talked about his program which is called True Leadership, the neuroscience of effective leaders.  Today, we’re going to talk about something that not a whole lot of business leaders I am aware of talk about and that’s imagination. 

James, welcome back to TotalPicture Radio.

James:  Well, it is great to be back again, Peter.  Imagine that.

Peter:  Imagine that.  As I said in the introduction which are your words –  success literary depends on how people use their imagination.  Tell us about this.  Let’s talk about this.

James:  Let’s do.  First of all, I loved the word itself and when I look back,  one of my favorite quotes was by Einstein when he said, “imagination is more important than knowledge.”  But the end of the quote is, “it is a preview of life’s coming attractions.”  That is so wonderfully Einstein because the fact is that all the studies that have been done in the brain sciences show that how we imagine, whether it’s fear based, possibility based or love based, affects everything from the way we communicate as a leader, the way we heal, the way we have a successful marriage, or the way we communicate with our children.

Literally, the imagination is the driver of our beliefs. 

If you look at it to me, you have a belief.  Say I believe that I shouldn’t fly because something terrible may happen; the imagination is going to create all sorts of pictures and images and mental movies out of that.  And those pictures and images and mental movies, I’m going to communicate to you, so I’m going to influence you.  Not only am I influenced.  If I have a team, I’m going to influence a team.  If I have a family, now, that would be fear-based thinking.  The imagination is going to grab hold of a belief and it’s going to shoot it out to you and it’s going to trigger your imagination and it’s going to affect how you perform as well as how I perform. 

That’s why I love the whole area of imagination because once you understand how the brain works and how the mind works, then we can start to not only to control our own imagination, we can influence other people as well as ourselves. 

Peter:  I don’t know of many companies who talk about imagination very much.  A lot of organizations will have brainstorming sessions, they’ll will have what they call ideation workshops where people get together and try to bring up new ideas or whatever.  How does this really work within a corporate setting?  How do you channel imagination into a business context? 

James:  When you talk about brainstorming, what creativity really is, is when an idea comes in laterally at another idea.  You have the idea, I piggyback on it, or something you say triggers something else; that is a different way of using the imagination. 

What I’m saying is that if you understand how the mind works, there are specific tools that you can use with yourself, not only for motivation but for idea generation and also to ground ourselves in a real vision of where we want to move.  It’s the actual conscious creation that I’m talking about of a picture or an image because we will always move in the direction of how we think.  At the beginning of my programs, to get this point across because it’s all about focus, it’s where we focus, I’ll pick up a lemon and I say this is my least favorite demonstration.  At the count of three, I’m going to take a big bite out of this lemon and I want you to pretend to imagine that you’re biting it with me.  In order to do that, you have to recreate a lemon.  It’s yellow.  It has a shape.  It has a smell.  I cut it apart.  I drip the juice.  I say 1...2...3, I slap the lemon in my mouth and it gushes all over me and once I get my breath I ask the audience how many of you had a reaction?  It never fails; 95+%  do.  Now that is the miracle of imagination.  That means that through suggestion, 95-96% of the audience created something out of nothing.  They have a biochemical, physiological, neural reaction to nothing by where they focused.

Peter:  What’s really interesting about this is I have actually seen this presentation at Lincoln Center and it must have been three or four years ago, James.  As you were describing this, I had the mental vision of you on the stage, cutting up this lemon and I had the same reaction where I’m having this tart tangy taste in my mouth of that lemon from that long ago. 

James:  See!  That’s a memory, that’s stored in your primitive brain. J

The interesting part of this is if that can happen by choosing to focus on a lemon, why can’t it happen by choosing to focus on something that’s empowering and passionate?  What most people do is that they choose to focus on things that aren’t.  The bottom line is the way the brain works – and we’ll get specifically to this later – is the primitive brain is designed as a problem solver. 

So when we as human beings look out into whatever we’re doing, let’s look at business, let’s look at productivity or innovation, what we’re going to see are the problems of things that aren’t working.  And then we become problem solvers.  So we jump in and go, “yes, let’s get our team and solve that problem.” 

I gotta tell you something; I don’t often hear about any organization that goes in and says, “yes, I understand those are all problems.  Let’s look at what’s working.”   If there’s nothing working, they wouldn’t be in business.  Let’s look at what’s working and let’s imagine doing more of that.  And so  we use our capability which is, to me, the greatest power we have is the power of imagination.  We use it to create more of what works instead of trying to control that which we can’t control or trying to use all our energy up solving problems.  I’m not saying there aren’t problems that have to be solved, but the point is, it’s misdirecting the focus. 

If somebody is looking at the wall when I’m biting the lemon, they’re not going to have the reaction of the lemon.  If somebody is looking at some little internal conflict that’s going on or some other issue that’s going on in the organizational field instead of looking on what’s working and doing more of it they’re going to have a different result than the organizations like Google.  In order to grab hold of this, because we’re talking in concepts,  which all of this is concept.  When people bite that lemon they have to understand (they don’t have to do anything) – I want them to understand that the conscious mind is our reasoning and critical part, which we talked about I believe in true leadership, and then the subconscious has an attribute.  It can’t tell the difference between a real or an imagined experience.  And the subconscious is what controls most of us. 

I’ve set this up and imagined that in a metaphor that I think people will understand.  The metaphor actually goes back to Plato in what was called Plato’s chariot in 370 B.C.  The charioteer was reason, and one of the horses was the bad horse and it was our appetite.  And then there was the good horse which was our spirit.  This charioteer would constantly be battling back and forth, and you jump forward to Freud and he had the iceberg thing about our mind is the conscious mind is the top of an iceberg and everything else is the subconscious.  I used to talk about programming a computer.  In fact, if you look at all self-help speakers of the past three decades, most of them have. 

Then I thought of another metaphor and I went back and I remembered that I was speaking in New Delhi and I went off on my own and I was going down an alley and a trainer of an elephant came up to me and said, “hey, Mister, ride, ride, ride”.  I said, “sure.”  So, I jumped on top of this elephant and the elephant kneels down.  I went, “this is a mistake.”  I’m on this 6,000 pound beast and I’m this little rider, and we start to move forward and I’m lurching around and I have like reins to hold on to and he comes up to what looks like a cliff.  It’s a steep angle and I see this elephant is going to go down.  I start to yell and scream and I’m pulling… I had no effect whatsoever on this big elephant.  Down we went and it scared the hell out of me.  And then  I said this is the perfect metaphor for the mind. 

We are in fact, like a rider on this giant elephant.  Our rider is our conscious, critical and analytical mind, the voice in our head that talks… we talk to ourselves and if your listeners don’t know what that voice, it’s the one that’s going what voice is that guy talking about.  The mind chatter usually gets us in trouble. 

The other part – the biggest part – 90% of us is the elephant.  Most people don’t understand that we can’t control it.  I specifically lay out what are the attributes of the elephant.  Because once you understand the attributes of both the elephant and the rider, you can start to employ the imagination.  

Peter:  Let’s back up just a minute, James.  So you’re saying that 90% of what we’re doing is controlled by the subconscious?

James:  Absolutely, and that’s backed up with brain sciences.  In fact, the person I called to get this quote, his name is Richard Granger, he wrote, The Big Brain.  He’s at Dartmouth, one of the top neuro- researchers.  I thought it was like 70%.  I’ve been in this business for a long time but brain scientists are showing us that it’s 90.  We don’t like to think about that, right?  But the courageous people do because once you accept that fact, then you can start to move faster in a direction that you want or you want your team to go or you want your organization to go. 

Peter:  Back to the beginning of this conversation, I think there’s something else that oftentimes, especially in business, the expression, “if that ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”  But what you’re saying to me is, if ain’t broke, you may want to go back and take a look at it because there may be some improvements that you can make to it. 

James:  Absolutely.  There’s a wonderful little exercise that I do with people and it’s so simple.  I say if I could get you to say current view of the situation to a better view of the situation 100 times a day, twice a day I guarantee you it would start to become a trigger so whatever you thought you had, you would make it better.  But who’s going to do that? 

I’ve got this little trick, it’s called CVS to BVS and you say that 100 times twice a day, it takes about 2 minutes.  And what it starts to instill is an automatic little trigger than whenever you have an idea about the future, or an idea about doing something, you stop and say, “okay, how can I make it better?”  That’s the conscious use of the imagination because we’re going to move in the direction that we think.  Our mental pictures and images control us.  Period.  And that’s when we go back to the elephant and you start to look at the subconscious.  You understand that the elephant wants what it wants now.  It doesn’t want to do a long term sacrifice.  It wants to be satisfied.  You look at people trying to lose weight, quitting smoking, or get rid of negative habits; they employ willpower and they go back to the way they were because they don’t understand how the mind works. 

It’s default setting in survival and it doesn’t think in the traditional sense but it has some positive strengths.  It’s the powerhouse of our energy.  It’s the mover.  It runs our body.  It’s a storehouse of our memories and this is both the positive and negative traits.  It cannot tell the difference between a real or imagined experience.  Go back to the lemon. J

If we can’t tell the difference, wouldn’t it make sense that this 90% of us that controls us, we might be able to be influenced by giving it an emotionally charged picture or image.  The rider has the capability because the rider is the visionary.  That’s what we are.  We can look in the future and see alternative paths of choice.  And we can create the emotionally charged pictures and images but the downside of the rider is we worry a lot.  We fuss a lot. 

Peter:  Right.  Most riders are risk adverse and don’t like change. 

James:  The elephant doesn’t like change and is risk adverse.  That’s translated to the rider but the beauty of our conscious mind is we have choice.  That we can look at the reality of a situation because if that elephant, if our subconscious is designed for survival and its default setting is the status quo, then it’s going to translate up to the rider.  If we can learn to use our creativity and our mental imaging which bleeds over to so many aspects from healing, not only to organizations, we then can craft an emotionally charged mental picture and image.  It takes us out of the box and as leaders, it takes other people out of the box. 

To me, the exception of learning about all this stuff is that we take a breath and we start to understand that a lot of the pictures and images and the thoughts that we have are fear based.  I teach a specific system in this Imagine That seminar to put the brakes on that – to both recognize and put the brakes and then reframe what we’re thinking to a more powerful and more empowering future. 

Peter:  Alright, so the elephant being the subconscious and the fact of the matter is that people are resistant to change most of the time. 

James:  Exactly.

Peter:  Even if they’re in a bad situation.

James:  Absolutely.

Peter:  Right?  We see this all the time.  Look at people who are in abusive relationships, why do they stay in those relationships?  Because it’s known, there’s something there James about the unknown.  Right?  About taking that leap and going off into unchartered territory that I guess back to this whole thing about the primitive mind that we’re resistant to. 

James:  We’re resistant to it and also because that elephant, the subconscious is the storehouse of memories.  I mean, this is a way other conversation.  Let me give you an example because after 35 years of private work I’ve seen this so much. 

If as young people we were in the attachment theories, but we were neglected or we were abused, that unfortunately becomes our comfort zone.  As horrible and so as we grow up, we tend to seek out that which is comfortable.  That’s why the transformational coach program I set up, that’s why transformation is such a wonderful word because it doesn’t say change.  Change implies you’re bad, you have to change, you have to get better. 

Well, I’m going to say something that will give people thought.  Listen to this.  Guess what; you don’t have to change.  You stay the way you are.  You transform which means growing bigger then adding on to.  Once you start to study your own self, look inward which the elephant doesn’t want to do – the rider can – you start to learn about yourself, learn your triggers, learn your negative, learn your weaknesses but you also learn your strengths.  Once you learn your strengths, you, like the lemon, you can focus on your strengths and you can start to step out of the comfort zone or out of the box.

Peter:  What are some of the techniques that you use with your clients in helping them to recognize and breakthrough their limitations and their fears?

James:  I’ll start with one that I’ll tell you is a metaphor, which I use with everyone now, not just athletics.  Years ago I was hired – because I’ve worked with athletes for many years, powerlifting, track, tennis, and golf – a  golfer wanted to fly me to Palm Desert to go around nine holes.

Peter:  That sounds like a pretty good gig to me. J

James:  Tell me about it.  Here’s my fee, here’s my plane fare, here’s my hotel and he said, “I’ll do it if you can help me with my game.”  Now I’ve helped people with their games in many areas with just visualization but I started to think about something a little different.  I’ll tell you what I did.

I went to a store and I bought a tape recorder and a microphone.  I didn’t tell him about this.  And before we were in the clubhouse, he was getting ready and before he went on, I said “here’s what you have to do if you want me to help you.”  I put the tape recorder on him.  I put the mic on him.  I said, “you have to say everything out loud that you would normally say to yourself while you play golf.  He said, “oh my God!”  I said, “you must do this.  You must commit.” Now, we only recorded for the first three holes but can you imagine what he would say.  I can’t repeat on the air what he would say to himself.  I can kind of make it up like, “you stupid idiot!  Look at you!   What the hell...” bop bop bop bop bop, on and on and on.

Peter:  All of this negative stuff.  

James:  All of this negative stuff, the self criticism is going to the tape recorder.  Afterwards, we go to the clubhouse and I said, “I want you to listen to 5 minutes of this and 5 minutes will be enough.  So he listened to 5 minutes and he was totally dejected.  I said, “do you have children?”  He said, “yes, I do.”  I said, “what do you think would happen to their performance, their enthusiasm and their self esteem if you talk to your children as you just talked to you?”  Well I think that’s a rhetorical question.  They would be devastated.  I said, “you don’t understand how the mind works, do you?  Because if you understood how the mind works you are talking to the elephant.  You are destroying yourself.  So I said, “I’m going to teach you three words.”  If I could do what’s called a Vulcan mind meld – back to the Star Trek movies – where I could connect with you and become you and every time you had a negative thought, I kind of smack you in the head and said, “Stop it!” Well, that would be pretty cool because that would give you the chance to rethink your thought but I can’t do that. 

I teach people an exercise with three words – Isn’t that interesting?  And it’s a programming exercise and it has never failed with any private client, any athlete.  There’s a system that I teach to instill this so that during the day whenever you have a negative thought you go stop, look at the thought and you go, isn’t that interesting?  Look at what I just thought.  I just called him a jerk, or myself a jerk, or said I can’t do it. 

What do you think happens to the thought, Peter, if you were able to identify it and say those words?   

Peter:  Well it seems to me this is going into an LP in reframing, right?

James:  It is.  What it does, for those who weren’t listening, it stops… it neutralizes the thought long enough for the rider to rethink or recreate the thought with affirmation or pictures and it doesn’t fail.  Once you do that, it neutralizes.  What’s interesting sometimes people will go “isn’t that interesting?”  And they go “this is a stupid exercise.”  And they go, “isn’t that interesting?”  Look I just said this was a stupid exercise.”    Eventually  they get it. 

That’s a very powerful technique.  That’s one technique. 

Peter:  That is really interesting.  You’re absolutely right because most people go through the day with that little voice running in your head with a lot of negative baggage going on.

James:  You bet.  Which is all picked up from years ago, other people’s voices. 

Peter:  Gosh, I’m a real idiot.  But if I go, gosh, I’m a real idiot, a real idiot and then I go stop and say, isn’t that interesting? 

James: … what I just said about myself.  This all goes back to imagination.

Peter:  I’m not an idiot. 

James:  The imagination doesn’t care, right?  People have to understand the imagination is a wonderful force that’s here and we have the power to use it and direct it to everything from performance to motivation to healing and on and on it goes.  Basically, that’s what we do all the time with ourselves is we’re programming the elephant.  We’re programming ourselves by our thoughts in what we say.  When you remind yourself to do this at the beginning of the day, you start to play with it during the day.  You might not do it at every moment but if you do it twice, you start to become, you form a habit and it’s really fun.  And then you start to do it with other people. 

Twenty-seven years ago when I met my wife she pulled me into her office she said, “I want you to know who I am.”  Up on her wall she said, “I will not be around people that vex the spirit.”  That’s written on her wall.  We hold to that.  To this day, we don’t hang around people that create negative thoughts in us, very long.  And so what this does is you start to  notice other people with negativity and instead of saying, “they’re jerks” or “I’m going to make them better” or “I’m going to criticize them”, you just sit back and say, “listen to what they just said, isn’t that interesting?”  You become less judgmental of yourself, you become less judgmental of others.  And when you do that, you start to sway your thinking, you start to shift your thinking. 

Peter:  Talk to me about mental movies. 

James:  I’d like people to understand that we always create mental movies in our head.  If you look at what you’re doing for dinner tonight or what your plans are for tomorrow or what you’d like to do in the future or a goal, you’re creating a script.  That script, the mental movies, is the way the primitive brain works on the elephant level.  

So when we create mental movies, in essence we’re unleashing the  imagination to move us towards the mental movie.  There’s a couple of rules about that.  One, the subconscious of the elephant can’t hear a negative suggestion.  Don’t think of pink elephants.  I’m just kidding.  J

Be careful when you cross the street you might be hit by a car.  That’s a terrible suggestion. 

Don’t fail.  That’s a terrible suggestion. 

Because what you always want to create a mental movie that leads you where you want to go or someone else where you want them to go, not where you don’t want them to go.  Mental movies is how we create our life,  our experience. 

When people taste the lemon they’re creating their experience, correct?

Peter:  Right.

James:  Right out of their focus.  So how we mentally visualize is creating our experience. 

If I sit here and think of something that happened from my past that’s horrible, I get depressed.  I’m creating my experience and I’m responsible and accountable for that.  If I look at something that I passionately want to do in the future and convey that passion to you, I’m not only creating my experience, I’m helping create your experience.  The way the mind works is we will move in the direction of what we think.  We can go back to all the Zig Ziglers and the wonderful people who would have helped me over the years, psycho-cybernetics says a lot about this, except now that it’s all based in brain science. 

Peter:  When we talked about true leadership and the neuroscience of affective leaders and we talked about the fact that you have to write down a mission statement and you set these goals and they’re measurable and there’s ways that you can track your progress; with imagination, how do you establish any kind of metrics around creativity?

James:  The metrics, you go back to if you’re imagining a goal then you measure the goal.  When you form a mental movie, you are essentially one making the invisible visible.  What do I mean by that? 

If I said to you, make a mental movie about picturing a bunch of blonde people walking around.  Picture those that have blonde hair glinting and then I have you walk out in Rockefeller Center with the mindset of a blonde person, who are you going to notice first?  You’re going to notice blonde people. 

You just have to take that metaphor to any stage you want from customer service to forming pictures and image of what that means, to establishing a goal and all of a sudden, you’re going to… the law of attraction sounds metaphysical, right?  But it isn’t; it’s based on neuroscience.  You’re going to start to see what you imagine. 

One of the exercises I do in my talks is I have everybody look around the room and notice everyone who is wearing red or maroon or orange.  I have the entire group, maybe 200 people, 500 people or 1,000 people close their eyes.  I say now, raise your hand if you can remember the general direction or the article of clothing of the people wearing red, maroon or orange.  All the hands go up.  I say open your eyes. Look at all the hands.  Close your eyes.  Now I want you to raise your hands if you can remember the direction of the article of clothing of all the people wearing green.  Open your eyes –  2 or 3 hands out of 500 are up.  Isn’t that interesting? 

What you’ve just done through the imagination is you made the invisible, visible and the visible, invisible.  Does that make sense?

Peter:  Absolutely.

James:  Why shouldn’t it work any different in hiring people and interviewing people. 

Peter:  Right.

James:  Why should it make any difference of the people you hire?  Of course, if you have your mindset and your clarity about the type of person you want on board that’s enthusiasm, that has all these attributes, you’re going to start attracting the right people in your life.  If you want to get a little further about this, hey your listeners can look around at the people in their lives and ask the question, “whoa, I don’t want that person in my life, why are they there?” 

Peter:  Right. 

James:  Because you chose them.  Why did you choose them?  What do you need?  It’s going back to fear, which is part of the Imagine That, is what’s the payoff for having fear or any fear?  There’s always a payoff.  Who or what do I get to avoid?  Who or what don’t I get to have?  When you start to look at the essence of it, that’s pretty powerful stuff and then you recraft your imagination.  You use the power of the imagination to reframe your thinking and then you have to do certain things. 

This just doesn’t happen by thinking about this once; you do have to do affirmations.  All the people that come to see me create that picture image mental movie of what they want and then I teach them a deep relaxation visualization.  They do this twice a day, 10 minutes a day and there has never been a time – and this is a brash statement to say from somebody who’s been in the business this long but I will say, there’s always a positive result.  There can’t be because that’s the way the brain works. 

Peter:  Wrapping up here, James, what can we take away from this conversation to help us really make our imaginations more productive on a daily basis? 

James:  I would start by a little self reflection.  Self reflection is, start to be aware.  Awareness is the key to all this, and it’s not something that we usually do because the world moves too fast. 

Start to be aware without judging of the kind of view that we have of people.  Are we positive?  Are we negative?  I’m not saying negative is wrong; we could talk about that too because sometimes it’s okay. 

Secondly, start to use “isn’t that interesting?”   Play with it.  Write it down right now as you’re listening “isn’t that interesting” and for the next day, use that to become aware of any negative thought and you’ll know if it’s negative because your body is going to feel crummy.  You’re going to feel a weight in your chest.  You’re going to feel this.  You’re going to feel anxious.  You’re going to feel stressed.  The imagination can control stress, too. 

Take “isn’t that interesting” and stop for a moment and reframe the thought.  And what that means is if I catch myself with a negative thought there’s always a picture and an image attached to it.  Just take a moment and reframe it in a positive thought.  Recreate the mental movie and play and act as if.  It’s a childlike ability that I ask people to do with this because you have to become a child.  Using the imagination is about you. 

Try the gratefulness exercise.  Before you go to bed, write down 3 things for what you’re grateful, circle one in the morning.  Do it for a week if you don’t want to do it for a month.  Those things immediately will start to have you reframe your mental movies and pictures and start to harness the imagination.

Peter:  That’s really interesting.   

James:  Imagine that!

Peter:  Imagine that.  James, thank you so much for speaking with us here on TotalPicture Radio.  This has been a very interesting and enlightening conversation.

James:  All my great pleasure, Peter.  Thank you for having me.

Peter:  Thanks. 

We’ve been speaking with James Mapes.  You can contact James through his website  We welcome your comments on our interview today.  You’ll find this podcast in the Leadership Channel of TotalPicture Radio; that’s  While there, please sign up for our newsletter and remember, you can subscribe to our program on iTunes.  Just do a keyword search for TotalPicture Radio and join me on Twitter @PeterClayton. 

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Peter Clayton

About Peter Clayton

Peter Clayton, Producer/Host, is an award-winning producer/director of radio, television, documentary, video, interactive and Web-based media who has created breakthrough media for a wide array of Fortune 100 clients.


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