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Alison Hadden - The Power of Employer Branding

If you don't manage your employer brand, then someone else will write the story for you.

 
Alison Hadden, director of product marketing for Glassdoor -TotalPicture Radio interviewAlison Hadden
"69% of Americans would not take a job with a company that had a bad reputation - even if they're unemployed." (Corporate Responsibility Magazine)

Welcome to a special Talent Acquisition channel podcast on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton. I just returned from the Recruiting Trends Conference in Alexandria, Virginia - one of the many interesting people I connected with at the Hilton Mark Center you'll meet today - Alison Hadden, Director of Product Marketing for Glassdoor.

Alison lead a session at the Recruiting Trends Conference titled "Assemble, Arm and Amplify: Next Level Employer Branding Strategies to Stand Out from the Pack"

As the resident Talent Solutions Evangelist, it's Alison's job to help shape Glassdoor's job advertising and employer branding products to best meet the needs of today's HR leaders and educate companies on how to effectively manage their employer brand to attract and retain top talent.

Alison Hadden - TotalPicture Radio - Recruiting Trends Interview

Welcome to a special Talent Acquisition Channel podcast here on TotalPicture Radio. This is Peter Clayton reporting. I just returned from the Recruiting Trends Conference in Alexandria, Virginia. There were many interesting people and ideas discussed at the conference, and it was certainly nice to see the flowering magnolia trees at the Hilton Alexandria Mark Center. One of the speakers I connected with at the Recruiting Trends Conference, you'll meet today, Alison Hadden, Director of Product Marketing for Glassdoor.

Alison led a session titled Assemble, Arm and Amplify: How to Build An Employer Brand That Attracts Rockstars. Before we get to the interview with Alison, I wanted to mention that I'll be covering the Fall Recruiting Trends Conference at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas, October 28th through the 30th.

TotalPicture Media has high visibility and cost-effective marketing opportunities available to a limited number of vendors, exhibitors and consultants in Las Vegas for video and podcast production. Flexible in design and execution, podcast and video productions can include client testimonials and interviews featuring clients, prospects, partners and conference speakers one-on-one. To learn more, please email This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

And now, here's my conversation with Alison Hadden.

Peter: Alison, thank you so much for taking time to speak with us today on TotalPicture Radio.

Alison: Sure thing, happy to be here.

Peter: You had an interesting session this morning and you started out with a bunch of statistics in your session that were published by Corporate Responsibility Magazine. One of them was 84% jobseekers would change jobs for a company with a better reputation, employer branding and 69% would not take a job with a company with a bad reputation, even if they were unemployed. Really?

Alison: Yes.

Peter: Dig deeper into this for me please and give me some of the background and research that you guys have been doing over at Glassdoor.

Alison: Over at Glassdoor, the research we've been doing, we're able to survey over 22 million jobseekers that we have in our community and it helps us understand some of the trends in jobseeker and candidate behavior. What we've seen is that employer branding today matters more than it ever has before because of social media, the Internet and the pace of information and all the things that are going on that wasn't really there a couple of years ago.

So what's happening with candidates today is they're requiring a level of transparency and authenticity from employers that they've never really asked for in the past because their reputation of a company is really weighing and having a tremendous influence on a jobseeker's decision to take a job or not.

Peter: So is this across the board or is this mainly Millennials that are disengaged in social media and really care that much about transparency? Or is it also Gen-X and Boomers?

Alison: That's a great question. I think definitely when it comes to social media and going to some of those channels and really being active in the conversation, we're going to see it skew a bit younger in terms of the Millennial set. But we're seeing Boomers. We're seeing across industries, we're seeing across generations and across regions and even globally, people starting to want to take place in the conversation and that idea of what is it really like to work somewhere, is really universal.

I believe that even some of the older generations are still looking for that transparency because one of the stats I mentioned this morning, 51% of new employees today say that they have buyer's remorse.

Peter: Yeah, I found that really surprising, when you consider the amount of vetting that's going on today before people even get a job offer and also sites like yours, like Glassdoor, where it's pretty transparent that most jobseekers today are going on to your site, they're going on LinkedIn. They're just Googling the name of the company to see what they can learn about an organization and its culture before they join.

Alison: Yeah. I think that, as you just mentioned, there was a recent study that was done, I mentioned it this morning by Software Advice. They put out a report in January of this year, in 2014, and they found that 48% of jobseekers are using Glassdoor at some point in their search. And again, this is crossing all generations, industries, regions.

So I think this is a universal need and I think with the tools that are out there, we're even seeing a number of employers sort of open the kimono themselves and say, we are a transparent and open employer. Come to our career site and you're actually going to see a direct link to Glassdoor so that you can see openly about what people are saying about our company.

I think the employers that are leaning into the conversation and really embracing this era of transparency are seeing the benefits in the form of right candidates and the candidates that are going to stay at the company from a retention standpoint.

Peter: I know on Glassdoor, you can go in there and the CEO is rated. Other than that, what else is rated?

Alison: We've got 6 million pieces of content that have been submitted by current and former employees across 300,000 companies worldwide. That content consists of everything from as you said, a CEO rating, a company rating, and our average company rating across the site is anywhere between a 3.2 and 3.3 out of 5. So we're seeing that most people are actually pretty satisfied with where they're working.

Other pieces of content that can be submitted are interview experiences. So it might not be an employee. It could be a candidate that goes through the process. Facebook for example has iPads at the end of their interview process on site. They hand it to candidates and they say, we encourage you to go onto Glassdoor right now and post a very candid experience of what this process was like.

So interview experiences, also salary reports can be posted anonymously so that people can get an idea of a range when they're researching that company. You can also post photos; that's another piece of content that could be submitted as well.

So we're really going a level deeper. We started with just the review and the rating piece; now we're getting into not just an overall company rating but, would you recommend the company to a friend? Do you believe that this company is going to have a more positive outlook moving forward, stay the same or it's going to basically go down? Would you recommend the CEO?

We're really going a level deeper too with things like work-life balance and the salary and compensation benefits so that we can then deliver to employers this fantastic data around how their company brand and their reputation stacks up against their talent competitors.

Peter: Right after your session, we had lunch today and I was sitting with an executive from Mass Mutual and she said that was really interesting. She was in your session and she said that, 'if a company wants to create a company page on Glassdoor, how do you know that person actually works for the company or is the designated representative for the company, that they really want to be managing their Glassdoor presence?' Can you talk through how that whole thing happens?

Alison: Sure. When a person signs up for a free employer account, they are submitting their email address which has to be validated on the backend after they submit it, to ensure that that is the case and that is a company email.

Peter: In the case of Mass Mutual, it would have to be someone who actually works at Mass Mutual and has that email address.

Alison: Correct. They also have to submit their first and last name. They have to submit their own personal email address. They have to submit also their title. So there's a series of sort of backend algorithmic things that go on from a technology perspective to ensure that that information's correct. But then that person is also, by submitting their information, they're saying yes, I am a representative of the company.

The nice thing is that there can be multiple people who sign up for their company's account and if I didn't know and I'm working for a large multinational - if I work at Shell and I didn't realize that Shell, we already had an employer account and I sign up for one, it's going to merge the accounts, and then you have the opportunity to determine who can, on our team, just view information, who can respond to reviews, who can edit some information and who can just be sort of a viewer of things. So there's different levels so that we can ensure...

Peter: So it's sort of like a content management system.

Alison: Exactly. That's actually one of the permissions, is you would tag someone as a content manager and they would have the ability to edit information but other people would just be sort of a reader of content.

Peter: Another question that came up during your session which I'm sure you get all the time, when you think of people posting online reviews, I often think of it as sort of bifurcated markets. So you either have people who are just in love with you, think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread, or people who hate you. So how do you get that middle ground of employees that work for your company? How do I get my engineering department to go on to Glassdoor and post a sort of day-in-the-life review of working at my company?

Alison: Yeah. That's a really great question. We hear it all the time. Employers saying, help us. So just the first thing, when you look across the 300,000 companies, as I said the average is actually a 3.2 or a 3.3 out of 5, which is slightly above average, right?

Peter: Right.

Alison: And that last time we surveyed our 22 million members, 70% said that they were okay or satisfied with their job. So 70% said okay or satisfied. So in terms of the two ends of the spectrum, across the board and aggregate, it's actually more of the middle. Like, Hey I really like the place where I work for a couple of these reasons and this stuff can be improved.

So we don't really get too many ends. For those companies that are saying we want a more balanced perspective here, there are a couple of things that they can do to get more employees engaged in a conversation on Glassdoor.

We have a number of resources that are on our website. If you go to glassdoor.com/employers, in the top right-hand corner, it says Resources. We've got two fantastic ebooks on how to encourage reviews from your employees. We've also got a fantastic section that says Managing Reviews and there's a ton of FAQs.

There's even an email template that companies can send out in a way that says we want more of you to tell your story. It's not saying we want you to post good reviews here or we want to incentivize you because that's not a best practice. But we want to be able to really share with people why this is a place they should work so that we can help vet out the people who are going to be the right fit.

So a ton of things that people can do, I encourage people to reach out to me directly too if they want some more ideas.

Peter: One of the things that really surprised me in your session today, and you had a good-sized audience and you said something to the effect that, how many of you in here are really satisfied with your career portal. I'm sure you were expecting half the room to raise their hands. Not one person in the entire room!

Alison: Yeah.

Peter: That's really surprising. As you said, I meant that's really where you need to start if you really want to have an employer brand that means something out there, first of all you've got to have a decent career site.

Alison: Yes. I definitely think that's the first place to start, Peter. And I was surprised too. Usually that's the - at least 75% will raise their hands and say, yes we've got 'why work for us' messaging or 'why we're an employer of choice,' or we might have some photos or some videos. We're speaking to our ideal candidate on our website. It's not just a static page that we update once every 5 years with just job postings. So I was surprised because most people know that that's really the first place to start.

Five years ago, six years ago, that was really the only place other than a job description that someone could find out about what it's like to work somewhere. The difference today, as I mentioned previously, is candidates are still going to your career site which I encourage everyone to make that sort of the centerpiece.

But then what you need to do is mirror that same content and push it across multiple different channels so that you can really amplify that message. But it begins there.

Peter: Right. Absolutely. I totally agree with you and it's really surprising sometimes with large organizations, you'll go to their career site and then you'll go to their Facebook page which is being managed by an outside agency. It has a completely different look and feel, a completely different messaging, and there's no relationship at all to their career portal.

Alison: Yeah, and what that says to a candidate, again a candidate today that is looking for that transparency and authenticity, they're going to sniff it out. They're going to go, the message that you're promoting here is not the same message you're promoting here, which tells me that communication internally or that you're hiring someone else to promote that message, it's going to kind of cost their trust alarm to go off a bit. That's not what the candidates want. They want to see that consistent message. They want to feel like there's good internal communication and they want to feel like the employer sees the importance of this communication so much that they are putting resources and putting time towards getting this message out consistently across channels.

Peter: So how do you go about measuring your employer brand out there? How do you know how effective your career portal is or whatever you're doing on Facebook?

Alison: So when it comes to your career site, a very easy way that's totally free is to use something like Google Analytics to measure the traffic that's coming to your career site and your career portal. I also would encourage companies to see if there's a way that they can also track that traffic to their career site, if that's coming in through desktop but then also through mobile. So what we're seeing today is that a significant amount of traffic is essentially coming through mobile, to companies' career sites and as a result, they're potentially missing out on the significant percentage of candidates because their career sites aren't mobile optimized.

Peter: That sure is true and everything that I've been seeing in the last year at any of these conferences, you look at companies like UPS; half of their applications are over a mobile device and that makes sense if you think of the drivers out there, right?

Alison: Right. And the challenge is, is it's as if you were hosting a recruiting event or a career fair and you did all this work to market the career fair to the ideal candidates and all of a sudden, there are a bunch of candidates that try to get in but the doors were locked, you don't know how many candidates were outside the door.

That's the challenge today, I think, with this mobile opportunity is there's a ton of candidates and a ton of applications that companies are missing out on because they can't see how many people are locked out. They can't see how many people get to their career site and go, oh this mobile process is confusing. I'm on the BART in San Francisco and I'm looking up jobs and I found a job. and I click on Apply Now but it's not a good experience for me as a user so I guess I'll just do it later. And then we have that drop-off rate.

I think it's a huge challenge that it's really not for any one function within this industry to fix. Definitely the ATSs and the companies that are using those ATSs need to really push them to further develop because the buck stops right there. It's still an education process that most people aren't aware of.

Peter: Yeah. The other thing Alison is the companies who have mobile optimized their websites to the extent that you can now actually apply through a mobile device have a huge competitive advantage over those companies that they're competing with who do not have that. With most companies today, you get to a certain point and it says and now you have to jump off and get on a PC to actually finish the application.

Alison: Yeah. It's incredibly accordant. We realized this at Glassdoor. In the last year, what we've done is we've had to obviously get in front of the curve and we've further developed our mobile apps and our native platform on mobile to ensure that the companies that advertise their jobs on Glassdoor, that those jobs get pushed out through those mobile devices as well because if upwards of 30, 35, even 40% of activity is coming through mobile, which is not unique, it's pretty consistent now across the board and it's growing at a hyper speed, we want to make sure that the employers that need to hire and are using Glassdoor to do that are getting their jobs in front of people where they're looking for it, which is now on their mobile device.

Peter: Exactly. So you bring up something that I think a lot of people don't realize about Glassdoor, is that there is a lot of companies who are now advertising their openings through Glassdoor. What are some of the advantages that they're finding and using your platform for job advertising?

Alison: Yeah, that's a great call. As to your point, most people know us for ratings and reviews. I think the industry understands that they can use Glassdoor to help promote their brand. What many companies are now realizing, we've got over 1500 employers that are advertising their jobs on Glassdoor as well because it's not just about the candidates that already know about your company; it's how do we get the jobs out in front of the rest of the qualified, engaged, informed candidates on Glassdoor by promoting your jobs to those that don't have you top of mind.

So for companies like Facebook, Box and VMware in the Bay Area where I'm from, to also companies that people maybe wouldn't think would fall into our bucket, companies like Nordstrom, like 1-800 Contacts, like Enterprise Rent-A-Car, helping them with management trainees. Because the candidates on Glassdoor really aren't just limited to also white collar but blue collar, hourly, retail, seasonal, we're having a tremendous amount of success across different industries here helping companies hire.

What they're telling us is that when they advertise their jobs and promote their brand on Glassdoor, they're seeing significantly higher applicant quality for two reasons. One is because the candidates are doing their research on Glassdoor. They're getting sort of the good, the bad and the ugly, similar to an internal employee referral. They're highly selective.

They're going to learn about a company and then say, "You know what, yes that management consulting job, it's going to be long hours. But you know what, I'm an A player and I thrive in that environment. I know the good, the bad and the ugly. It's the right place for me. So what we're finding is that it's taking up to 2 times less résumés to get to a hire with the candidates that people are sourcing from Glassdoor.

The other reason is with our behavioral targeting. So the way that we serve up the job advertisements that are posted by the employer clients is uniquely targeted to the right members on Glassdoor, based on what they're doing on Glassdoor. When they're logged in and 80% of those that are searching for jobs on Glassdoor, they're logged in. We're able to take every single piece of information...

Lou Adler this morning was talking about LinkedIn and kind of knowing the information. We do a similar thing on Glassdoor. We just do it to benefit the employer so that we know so much about the candidates that are on Glassdoor that we can tailor the jobs that are going to show up throughout the site for them based on their background, based on their Facebook profile and based on the behavior on Glassdoor.

So this is all resulting in significantly higher applicant quality, which is helpful, and significantly less unqualified résumés because all I keep hearing now talking to people across the country is, I don't want more applicants. It's not about more, right?

Peter: Right. It's about the right ones.

Alison: Exactly. And I hire myself, the last thing I want to do on Sunday morning is sit in bed with my coffee and go, great now I've got to go through 150 résumés and maybe I want to phone screen one of them.

Peter: Right.

Alison: So that's what we're trying to do with Glassdoor. We're trying to ensure that it's not about quantity; it's about delivering a better quality applicant that is going to turn into the right fit hire and is going to end up staying at your company longer, and then becoming a fantastic brand ambassador for your company.

Peter: I want to return a little bit and talk about what is involved in a company page on Glassdoor, which I understand you can set up a company page for free. And what do you get in return for that as far as stats? What kind of information can you glean by having an active company presence on Glassdoor?

Alison: Most organizations are going to already have a company profile that's up on Glassdoor. We either pulled information from a publicly available source or someone submitted a review about that organization, which then kind of created their profile. Any company that's a representative is able to create a free employer account and get access to their profile.

A free employer account gives them really three things and frankly, I think we give away a lot because we just want employers involved in the conversation, kind of money aside. What they're able to do first is they can edit basic company information, so they can go in and make sure is the CEO name correct, is our headquarter location correct, employee size? They can do things like add a company description and add a company mission. Make sure that they're in the right industry so that when people search for them, it comes up. Then what they can do is they can even add photos. They can add awards. Again, all of this is free. So they can edit that basic company information.

The second thing that they can do is they can respond to reviews publicly. This is something that's incredibly important that getting back to that transparency, this is what today's jobseekers want. They want to see an employer that's highly involved in the process.

I told the story this morning about a public company CEO that we can't share because he thinks it's a competitive advantage. He's a public company CEO who contacted us and said, I know for a fact, because I spoke to them, that four hires that I got in the last couple of weeks said, what swayed us was when we got on Glassdoor and saw that you, the CEO of this large public company were taking the time to respond to reviews on Glassdoor. They said that's the company I want to work for, somewhere where the CEO is that engaged in the process. So that's the second thing that employers can do; they can respond to reviews publicly.

The third thing, as you mentioned, is the data and the analytics. We give away a lot of fantastic data and reports completely for free. We can show the brand awareness in the form of page views and traffic to a company's Glassdoor profile month over month. You can even select up to two other companies, any companies that you compete with so that you can actually see in real-time what your traffic is compared to them.

So if I am Facebook and I want to look at Google and I want to look at Microsoft, I'm able to actually track month over month what my brand awareness looks like and how that's changed.

I talked this morning, we talk with companies regardless of size. If they basically start hiring, they go through a hiring push or it's a certain time of year, we can see the trend and the spikes in their Glassdoor traffic that shows us when candidates were more actively researching them on Glassdoor.

We're also able to show a side-by-side comparison of demographics. We can show these are the number of people who have been actively researching you, this is who those people are. This is the age breakdown. This is the education they've received. This is the gender. This is the age, and we can again compare it to up to two other companies. We can look at the number of locations, the types of locations, the types of jobs and the other companies that those candidates have been actively researching.

It really gives you an idea of who you need to sort of message to and where those candidates are potentially looking, other than just you.

The other thing that we're able to provide for free with our analytics is show really a ratings trend over time. So we're able to show a breakdown of the amount of content that they have on their page, but we can show what the CEO rating has trended over time and we can show the overall company rating over time.

All of those things we give to anyone who wants a free employer account. You can go to glassdoor.com/employers and you can see the call to action button that's right there.

Obviously you're going to get a lot more enhanced reporting analytics when you chose to enhance your profile and purchase our employer branding. That would enable you to see things like a word cloud which our employers love. It basically pulls out a word cloud of pros and one of cons that pulls out the most common things that are cited in the reviews in aggregate.

We're able to show a company reputation heat map comparison where I can take a look at work-life balance, salary and benefits, compensation and I can see a stack ranking of me versus four other companies and how people are rating us, things like that.

When it comes to jobs, I'm able to track job click activity. What jobs are people clicking on the most? Where am I getting the most job click traffic? Is it coming directly to my profile or am I having people that don't really think about me, see my job, showcased throughout Glassdoor, and then they click on them and they find us that way?

A big key of how we do our job advertising is it's one click directly to a company's career site as opposed to clicking on a job that you might see on a job board, getting sort of hijacked to a third party site where you've got to register or log in to view the job and by that point, you're like, forget it.

Peter: Forget it, exactly.

Alison: The candidate drop-off rate is something like 90% with each individual step. On Glassdoor, every job that's being advertised directly on Glassdoor, it's a one click apply. They click on the job. They go directly to the company's career site. We pull directly from their ATS all of their jobs because the whole point of branding and promoting your jobs is to get those hires. We don't want there to be any barriers to entry.

Peter: Another lunch time question here.

Alison: Yes.

Peter: Someone else said, you know what I worried about with Glassdoor is - you brought up VMware. Let's say a competitor to VMware wants to juice their rankings down so they go in and they post all of these negative reviews about VMware. How do you vet all of this content that's being brought in and published on your website to make sure that it's legitimate and valid and it's not a competitor out there trying to juice somebody else?

Alison: Juicing! You bring up a great point. So I think one thing that's important that I'm not sure people are aware of is how our content moderation works, which is different than other kind of ratings and review sites that are out there in different industries.

We have a multi-tiered review process that involves both technology and human touch. The technology aspect of the moderation includes algorithms on the backend that search for bots to ensure that they're actual human beings and not kind of spam programs that are built to create automatic reviews.

We do things like we look at IP addresses and we see if there have been multiple user accounts that have been created from one IP address or if you have multiple reviews that are going out that say different things from one IP address. There are a number of other things that I'm not able to share that we do to ensure that there's no gaming of the system.

But because technology can't kind of solve everything as I mentioned this morning, we also have a content moderation team of human beings.

Peter: Wow.

Alison: Yes! That's based in Ohio. So their job is to take a look at every single piece of content, every photo, every review, every rating, every interview experience and before it goes on the site, it has to go through that team who says, yes this does meet our community guidelines or no. And when they say no, that piece of content does not get posted live on the site.

Our community guidelines are things like no profanity, things like no calling out the C-suite by name. The way we even structure our content on Glassdoor which helps us with quality is we're asking for pros and cons. We're asking advice to senior management. We're asking, where do you think this company will go? We're really creating an environment for constructive feedback that's going to help jobseekers.

When we see those ratings across the site, we recognize that most people are here because they really do want constructive information that's going to help them make a decision about a job, and as a result, we're seeing that they're kind of submitting content the same way.

So hopefully that answers your question. It's a common one. One thing we do tell employers is if they feel like something should go through further moderation, they can either flag the review so that it goes back through the cycle. They can respond to a review publicly like I talked about or they can contact us directly.

It's always trying to find that balance between being the largest transparent and trusted place for candidates to search for jobs and research companies and then also ensuring that it's a constructive environment. As I've said, I think we've done a really good job but it's evolving over time.

Peter: I think the moral of the story here is that if you want really engaged employees and if you want a stellar employer brand, as a leader of your organization, VP and above, you have to be engaged as well.

Alison: Yeah. You don't have to but I believe that if you don't, you are going to be missing out on, as you said, the candidates that everybody says that they want. There's a missed opportunity there. The ostrich head in the sand, you can do that as long as you like, but there's a world that's going by above the sand that you can leverage as an employer and use it to your benefit when it comes to really recruiting and building out company reputation.

Peter: Great. Alison, thank you very much for taking time to speak with us here at the Recruiting Trends Conference in Alexandria, Virginia. It's been very nice meeting you.

Alison: Thanks Peter. I appreciate it.

Peter: Thank you.

Thank you for tuning in today. You'll find this podcast in the Talent Acquisition Channel of TotalPicture Radio. That's totalpicture.com and of course on iTunes, Stitcher Radio and many of the podcast aggregation sites. This is Peter Clayton reporting. I'll be covering the SHRM Talent Management Conference and Expo, April 28th through the 30th in Nashville, Tennessee.

TotalPicture Media has high visibility marketing opportunities available to a limited number of vendors, exhibitors and consultants for video and podcast production at the conference. To learn more, contact me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . I look forward to seeing you in Nashville and this fall at the Recruiting Trends Conference.

About Glassdoor:
Glassdoor holds a growing database of 6 million company reviews, CEO approval ratings, salary reports, interview reviews and questions, office photos and more. Unlike other jobs sites, all of this information is entirely shared by those who know a company best - the employees. Add to that the latest jobs and the ability to see Inside Connections at companies via your Facebook network - no other community allows you to see which employers are hiring, what it's really like to work there according to employees, and who you may know at a particular company all in one place. Glassdoor is also available via itsmobile app on iOS and Android platforms.

For employers, Glassdoor offers effective recruiting and employer branding solutions via Glassdoor Talent Solutions. We help more than 1,500 employers promote their employer brand to candidates researching them and advertise their jobs to ideal candidates who may not be aware of them. What differentiates Glassdoor from other recruiting channels is the quality of job candidates we deliver and our influence on candidates' decisions as they research jobs and companies.

Peter Clayton

About Peter Clayton

Peter Clayton, Producer/Host, is an award-winning producer/director of radio, television, documentary, video, interactive and Web-based media who has created breakthrough media for a wide array of Fortune 100 clients.

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